Cat 1 Supplementary Cards - quick question

[Jacko_G]

In order to maintain the integrity of top-level amateur competitions, as far as I understand it. This might in your eyes might be discriminatory, but such competitions discriminate in favour of the better player by their very nature. For clarity, I don't have a problem with that.

So is there no "integrity" required to enter Open competitions for 6+ handicap golfers?

Telling someone they can't do something based on their ability compared to others is discriminatory regardless of how you try and dress it up.

 

[patricks148]

So is there no "integrity" required to enter Open competitions for 6+ handicap golfers?

Telling someone they can't do something based on their ability compared to others is discriminatory regardless of how you try and dress it up.

sort of a agree with you jacko, but all change for 2020, play a qual when ever you like so no excuse not to get to +6

 

[doublebogey7]

So is there no "integrity" required to enter Open competitions for 6+ handicap golfers?

Telling someone they can't do something based on their ability compared to others is discriminatory regardless of how you try and dress it up.

On your first point if I with an 8 handicap apply to enter a club open, then providing I have applied in good time I will play. If as an 8 handicapper I apply to play in the Amateur Championship, I will be balloted out.

On your second point, you will have to show me where I said it wasn't discrimination. Discrimination based on ability is an intrinsic part of our society always has been always will be otherwise my application to play at the masters this year would have been accepted.

 

[rulefan]

Most elite open comps (eg county championship, Brabazon) have an entry requirement of a max handicap. eg the Brabazon is 1.4.
Is this nor discriminating against the higher handicapper?

Re returning supplementary scores. Rightly or wrongly, many organisers (and players) of elite comps do not believe that these reflect the conditions of playing at that level. They want evidence that all entrants are 'upto scratch' as it were.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

It annoys me too as a Cat 1 that I can't put a score in each time I play (although obviously changing next year). I play for score, not for a social laugh - so want each round to count for something.

That said, I play more qualifiers than most and the weekends that there isn't a competition, I'll usually go and play an Open Comp between May-Sep. Plenty of these are midweek and if you're willing to drive a couple of hours I'm relatively sure you could find a qualifying Open competition at least 4 times a month mid-week in the heart of the season.

 

[patricks148]

It annoys me too as a Cat 1 that I can't put a score in each time I play (although obviously changing next year). I play for score, not for a social laugh - so want each round to count for something.

That said, I play more qualifiers than most and the weekends that there isn't a competition, I'll usually go and play an Open Comp between May-Sep. Plenty of these are midweek and if you're willing to drive a couple of hours I'm relatively sure you could find a qualifying Open competition at least 4 times a month mid-week in the heart of the season.

trouble is Jim all the opens are at the weekend in Scotland unless you are a senior. most of the better ones would be full weeks if not months in advance not much good to a shift worker like Jacko.

doesn't bother me though i play loads of weekend comps with over 30 Qual comps and a few opens as well last year, which incidentally was down on the prev year

 

[Jacko_G]

It annoys me too as a Cat 1 that I can't put a score in each time I play (although obviously changing next year). I play for score, not for a social laugh - so want each round to count for something.

That said, I play more qualifiers than most and the weekends that there isn't a competition, I'll usually go and play an Open Comp between May-Sep. Plenty of these are midweek and if you're willing to drive a couple of hours I'm relatively sure you could find a qualifying Open competition at least 4 times a month mid-week in the heart of the season.

I travel a lot for golf but I would be surprised if I could get more than 5 (and that I think is being generous) midweek counting Open competitions in Scotland.

 

[Jacko_G]

Most elite open comps (eg county championship, Brabazon) have an entry requirement of a max handicap. eg the Brabazon is 1.4.
Is this nor discriminating against the higher handicapper?

Re returning supplementary scores. Rightly or wrongly, many organisers (and players) of elite comps do not believe that these reflect the conditions of playing at that level. They want evidence that all entrants are 'upto scratch' as it were.

No as that is an entry requirement of the competition. Similarly I can't enter a competition for 12-28 handicap golfers as that is a specific requirement of that entry criteria.

 

[Jacko_G]

On your first point if I with an 8 handicap apply to enter a club open, then providing I have applied in good time I will play. If as an 8 handicapper I apply to play in the Amateur Championship, I will be balloted out.

On your second point, you will have to show me where I said it wasn't discrimination. Discrimination based on ability is an intrinsic part of our society always has been always will be otherwise my application to play at the masters this year would have been accepted.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Masters is invite only so you may as well save yourself a stamp!

😉

 

[rulefan]

Similarly I can't enter a competition for 12-28 handicap golfers as that is a specific requirement of that entry criteria.

That also is discriminating.
Discriminate: to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs.

 

[Jacko_G]

That also is discriminating.
Discriminate: to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs.

No it's not as you can quite clearly stipulate entry requirements without discriminating.

Just like on job applications you can stipulate what you are looking for in terms of experience and qualifications.

 

[rulefan]

So there is no distinction being made?
Discrimination is simply distinction, no matter how or where it is made. It does not have any moral or legal implications (eg colour or race).
Discriminate also means treat differently. Aren't Cat 1 players simply being treated differently?

 

[rulefan]

Telling someone they can't do something based on their ability compared to others is discriminatory regardless of how you try and dress it up.

So you are told that you can't play in the Brabazon because of your relative ability, and that is not discriminatory?

 

[Jacko_G]

So there is no distinction being made?
Discrimination is simply distinction, no matter how or where it is made. It does not have any moral or legal implications (eg colour or race).
Discriminate also means treat differently. Aren't Cat 1 players simply being treated differently?

I suggest you look into the legality of legal stipulations before you start spouting complete and utter tripe.

 

[patricks148]

So you are told that you can't play in the Brabazon because of your relative ability, and that is not discriminatory?

I'm Cat 1 i can't play the Brabazon either nor can i put in supplementary cards or play in high handicap comp so i'm discriminated against even more, don't get me started on the ladies comps either, but then i'm middle aged and white, i might as well do a Kellfire

 

[rulefan]

I suggest you look into the legality of legal stipulations before you start spouting complete and utter tripe.

I was saying that making a distinction based on playing ability has no legal implication although it is discrimination.
The law is only concerned with certain specified forms. It is not concerned with discrimination based on anything other that those forms.
Barring entry to the Brabazon because of a player's religion would be form that the law prohibits.

 

[Jacko_G]

I was saying that making a distinction based on playing ability has no legal implication although it is discrimination.
The law is only concerned with certain specified forms. It is not concerned with discrimination based on anything other that those forms.
Barring entry to the Brabazon because of a player's religion would be form that the law prohibits.

I suggest you research further.

 

[doublebogey7]

I suggest you research further.

Please explain, as far as I can see Rulefan has it spot on. I am really not sure what you are trying to prove with your posts on this thread.

 

[Jacko_G]

I'm not trying to prove anything. I am telling you CAT 1 golfers are discriminated against under the supplementary card rule which is a nonsense.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

trouble is Jim all the opens are at the weekend in Scotland unless you are a senior. most of the better ones would be full weeks if not months in advance not much good to a shift worker like Jacko.

doesn't bother me though i play loads of weekend comps with over 30 Qual comps and a few opens as well last year, which incidentally was down on the prev year

Fairy snuff - I'm not as au fait with thing north of the border, can't be arsed to work out which are weekends but there's a shed-load of individual opens on Golf Empire, here's the lists for South East and Central Scotland if of any use!

https://www.golfempire.co.uk/county/scotland-south-east-individual.htm
https://www.golfempire.co.uk/county/scotland-central-individual.htm

Just pipped you last year with 55 qualifiers! I keep meaning to come and do a couple of Scratch Open's in Scotland (ironically over a weekend in the Summer ...), will give you a shout if I find some that work with dates!