jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Just remember there is also not a lot that has to done when it is serviced. Brakes and Tyre pressures.
Just remember there is also not a lot that has to done when it is serviced. Brakes and Tyre pressures.
bobmac
Major Champion
I agree, but it's improving every day
A bit off topic and a personal opinion, but Teslas look like pimped up Vauxhalls to me. ???
They remind me more of the Jaguar XF
Motorway driving gives the worst range figures for EVs as there is no regeneration. Besides, all car makers mileage claims are exaggerated.
Did I mention the free Tesla supercharging throughout Europe?
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Tesla look more like a Vauxhall Insignia to me
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Forgot to mention.....
"A great value Tesla S85 with the benefit of free unlimited supercharging throughout UK and Europe"
Free 'petrol'
I'd love one however the free super charging is overrated
Limited availability. For example I use one of London's busiest roads every day. I'd have to drive 5 miles past work on my 25 mile drive to get one.. and even then it's 2 free chargers ... Doubt you could get it when you wanted
Piece
Tour Winner
In approximately 5 years time, I could be in the market for an EV, if the range is at least doubled and much improved charging infrastructure.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Without trying to hijack the thread im looking at a leaf in the summer
I do 50 miles a day.. can set it to charge overnight and get a traffic that is 3ppkw between 00:30 and 04:30
Charge everynight should always be enough range
Replace my Honda with it just as a work car
Keep the bigger 7 seater MPV as the family car
Apparently their amazing to drive. No lad just straight power
The leaf I'm looking at is 0-60 of 8 seconds which don't get me wrong isn't super fast but for a small hatch back powered by electric is good.. not that I'm interested in that .. more into getting to work for £10 a week or whatever it is
bobmac
Major Champion
1. How often do you have to drive over 600 miles without stopping, 2. what petrol/diesel car has that range and 3. how much would that cost in fuel?
1. never 2. not many 3.I'm guessing between £70-£80
Did I mention the Tesla supercharging throughout Europe is free?
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Not all of them have it tho
https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...-cars-full-Free-Unlimited-Supercharging-price
Second hand like the one you posted will but going forward does not
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
I assume you have an EV Bob?
Piece
Tour Winner
1. It's not about doing the miles in one go. It's about how often I need to stop and where I can. 2. My last car, an extremely common 2.0l diesel, so alot. 3. Not sure it's relevant when I'm referring to range.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
I get you about range. It's hard when we are built for a system that you can get instant fuel in say 5-10 mins total including Payment that can last days-weeks (or months during lockdown) and the system on offer is say 30 mins more often .. just not ideal yet
Home charging would suit me
Guy at work was like but you will never break even installing the charger
For me I'm not trying to save money with a charger it would be for convenience
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I've found a website
Cartaxcheck.co.uk
Cartaxcheck.co.uk
bobmac
Major Champion
Not yet but my next car will be.
I only do 2,000-3,000 miles a year and I've got somewhere to charge it so it's perfect for me.
I appreciate they are not perfect for everyone but the facts are as gas and oil start to run out, they will become more expensive. Meanwhile, millions are being spent expanding and improving renewable energy, so that will become a cheaper and cleaner form of energy.
It will take time I know but when thinking about buying your next car consider this....
It is now cheaper to buy and run an EV over it's lifetime, taking into consideration tax, fuel costs, servicing, congestion charge, etc. Will someone want to buy your old car in 2025?
If you want a direct comparison, work out the cost per mile for your car and compare that to the 3-5p per mile of an EV.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
I appreciate that it suits your use case and, for you, will probably be convenient. And in the SE of England, that's probably going to be true of many people. Sadly though, the "getting better everyday" doesn't ring true across the land. Where I live, the nearest charge point (forgetting the "super" ones) is nearly 5 miles away. I am fortunate that I have private parking and so getting a charger would be possible, but many around here with restrictive on-street parking it won't be and until something is done about that, it doesn't matter how expensive oil and gas become if there is no realistic alternative.
It's easy to draw comparisons over the life of anything, the assumption here is that you keep that thing for it's lifetime. If you will, then that's great, but many won't. It's not the "lifetime" cost that makes them unaffordable at the moment, it's the actual now cost. For example, I looked at the Tesla Model S (I think the Model 3 is an ugly bit of kit) and upfront (even with the small grant that I would get) it would have cost me almost £12000 (that includes the remaining deposit I would have had to pay and the installation of the charge point). My BMW cost me £3000 up front and my monthly payments are £89 per month LESS than the Model S was. So lets look at that, I would save approx £1200 per year in "running costs" (Tesla's calculation, not mine).
Lets say it's over 4 years (PCP duration). There is a nett difference of £9000 from the upfron't cost, the running cost saving is eroded to just £132 per year when you factor in the increases PCP payments.
BUT, I still have to pony up the £12k to even start on this journey, that nett £132 saving would take me 68 years to break even against the £9000 differential. I appreciate that some people will have more of a monthly saving but in my instance, I would need to save £148 PER MONTH to recover that £9000 difference. So yes, over the lifetime of the car (not the lifetime of my possible ownership) it's possible that it could work out cheaper. But I still have a £9000 hurdle even before I have started.
That's not factoring in convenience of charging when out and about. I do a little bit more than 2-3k miles per year and several monthly journeys that would take me outside of the car's range so would need charged en-route. I can't afford to be sitting in a petrol station for an hour or more waiting on a car charging.
In my area, there are 15 petrol stations within a 5 square mile radius, one of these has 1 charge point. ONE, a single charge point. But all of them have petrol and diesel when I need it.
Until, the "getting better every day" actually transposes in to real, NATIONWIDE, tangible improvements then there is always going to be an issue. Until costs are reduced at the point of sale and not distributed over years and years, it's going to be an issue. Until ranges really do see an improvement in real world usage, it's going to be an issue.
Caveat, I realise I am talking about the Model S here in my example, I can only go with the experience that I had, and I realise that cheaper EVs are available, that is also kind of part of my point, I shouldn't need to compromise my style choice just so I can afford it. A small hatchback is of no use to me and I dislike SUVs with a passion. That narrows the pool down a lot. If I couldn't afford the BMW I have in the "non EV market" then I could get a Mondeo much cheaper that would STILL fit my size and spec requirements.
TLDR: EV has a fair bit to go and the "getting better every day" needs to actually be every day and not limited to certain geographical locales.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Very valid point Greig about having the facility to charge at home. I have a drive so not an issue but huge numbers of people have to rely on street parking so a complete no go for them. As you say, who wants to start their commute by sitting in a petrol station for an hour.
But I agree with Bob, EVs are the future once the infrastructure is in place. Until then I'll engine the throaty roar of a powerful petrol engine
But I agree with Bob, EVs are the future once the infrastructure is in place. Until then I'll engine the throaty roar of a powerful petrol engine
bobmac
Major Champion
Have you tried the chargers at the car park off Viewfield Terrace?
7kw charger and free to use.
Or...
Tuke Street 0.54 mi
Pitbauchilie House Hotel 1.03 mi
Queen Margaret Hospital 1.31 mi
Queen Margaret Rail Halt Car Park 1.41 mi
Stephens Bakery 1.75 mi
Best Western Keavil House Hotel 1.98 mi
Stephens Bakery 2.08 mi
Rosyth Service Station 2.11 mi
Rosyth Rail Halt Car Park 2.14 mi
Park's Inverkeithing
7kw charger and free to use.
Or...
Tuke Street 0.54 mi
Pitbauchilie House Hotel 1.03 mi
Queen Margaret Hospital 1.31 mi
Queen Margaret Rail Halt Car Park 1.41 mi
Stephens Bakery 1.75 mi
Best Western Keavil House Hotel 1.98 mi
Stephens Bakery 2.08 mi
Rosyth Service Station 2.11 mi
Rosyth Rail Halt Car Park 2.14 mi
Park's Inverkeithing
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
You haven't been round here much, have you? For the few that have actually been installed in that list, most are out of order large swathes of the time and the ones that do work always have queues waiting to use them. That's convenient...
There is not even any charge points at Dunfermline Rail station, something I thought was to be a priority. For me to go to Dunfermline Queen Margaret would add 8 miles a day to my journey and, due to traffic, approx 20 minutes in the morning. Not much I grant, but add it all up...
All of those, however, are a minimum of 4 miles from me. That's 10 charge points in an area stretching some 6 or 7 square miles. From Tuke St to Inverkeithing isn't just a hop and a skip.
I noted the charge point at Rosyth Halt (there is only one by the way, in a car park with nigh on 150 spaces) is always taken in the mornings and that was with me arriving at the station at 0730 for a 0900 start.
I appreciate your passion and tenacity on the subject Bob, and I get you love EVs. Sadly the reality is that we are a LONG way off them being a practical everyday usable option for most people.
bobmac
Major Champion
10 years ago, you couldn't buy an electric car.
5 years ago there were over 5,000
Last year that has risen to 275,000 cars.
In 5 years time (I hope less) charging points will have doubled but they will be at your work, Asda, golf club, local pub etc.
Cleaner air, great performance, fun to drive, easy to sneak up behind cyclists, cheap to run, little maintenance and Greta Thunberg will love you forever.
The EV is less than 10 years old, be patient.
5 years ago there were over 5,000
Last year that has risen to 275,000 cars.
In 5 years time (I hope less) charging points will have doubled but they will be at your work, Asda, golf club, local pub etc.
Cleaner air, great performance, fun to drive, easy to sneak up behind cyclists, cheap to run, little maintenance and Greta Thunberg will love you forever.
The EV is less than 10 years old, be patient.
I appreciate we are hijacking this thread a little but it looks as though D4S has found his website and this is a nice distraction.
A brand new supermarket was built behind where I work, it opened in April this year. It was derelict land, the whole thing was built from scratch. 350 car parking spaces, 2 charging points. If the govt are serious about electric cars then surely a brand new development should be having row upon row of charging points. It is hard enough installing them into existing infrastructure but for an entirely blank canvas to be ignored is scandalous. If people can not see charging points in abundance they will not change in any volume. Range anxiety is a huge issue and it simply is not being addressed. We need to see banks of chargers everywhere we go, not have to go searching and crossing fingers that the two to be found are not being used.
A brand new supermarket was built behind where I work, it opened in April this year. It was derelict land, the whole thing was built from scratch. 350 car parking spaces, 2 charging points
. If the govt are serious about electric cars then surely a brand new development should be having row upon row of charging points. It is hard enough installing them into existing infrastructure but for an entirely blank canvas to be ignored is scandalous. If people can not see charging points in abundance they will not change in any volume. Range anxiety is a huge issue and it simply is not being addressed. We need to see banks of chargers everywhere we go, not have to go searching and crossing fingers that the two to be found are not being used.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Exactly, this is my point. Most people ARE being patient. The problem is folks that are evangelical about it, one guy in my old team at work didn't talk to me for weeks after I bought the M340. He couldn't believe that I would not get a EV and it was all he talked about. Some people want everyone else to change NOW, there is no or little patience for them.
5 years is a long time, for anything, and I hope you are right. I have always planned on getting an EV but it has to be at the time and specification that is right for me and my needs, not compromising to suit someone else's agenda.
This is a personal opinion, but I think it's too early to say for sure whether the running cost savings are as good as people think. As you say, the EV has evolved a lot quickly and with that evolution comes variables in the comparables. Until it settles down, the true running cost (which includes maintenance and upkeep as well as just charging and road tax) will be a bit up and down. Again, just personal opinion and knowing how much my mate's Tesla brakes were to get done... eye watering even for a BMW owner
