D
Deleted member 23270
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OK if you say so ?
Can lessons be a waste of time?
- Thread starter Tommygun16
- Start date
bobmac
Major Champion
I didn't say I did, you did...
I have no idea. I just said they are taught to teach the 5 golf laws, not one set swing.
Again, I wouldn't know, but that is how they are taught to teach. A PGA pro would not teach the same swing to a 12 year old as he/she would teach a 70 year old
If the clubface is parallel with the spine angle, it is square.
I disagree. If you pull hard and left with a square face, you will hit a pull.
True, but as I have done the PGA course, I would suggest I know more about what is and what isn't taught than most.
And I certainly don't agree with Tommyguns earlier comment.
But as they say....everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Tommygun16
Member
It's interesting isn't it. It would be good to be able to test how much lessons do or don't improve someone, but it would be almost impossible to do (i.e. would they have improved anyway).
However, given my particular issue as explained in the first post, if I do go to see a new pro and his approach is the same as the others, then surely that's telling that there's an issue. I'll report back.
However, given my particular issue as explained in the first post, if I do go to see a new pro and his approach is the same as the others, then surely that's telling that there's an issue. I'll report back.
Jason.H
Well-known member
At that point the club face should be the same angle as the spine as it is in the photo. As a starting point a neutral grip and good ball position are key. I played golf with someone who had a really strong grip and was hooking balls out of bounds and he said his coach was really good yet can’t get the grip right.
bobmac
Major Champion
Jason.H
Well-known member
I’ve become a very consistent ball striker and really pay attention to alignment an ball position.
bobmac
Major Champion
I don't doubt that and I'm pleased it helps you but the ball doesn't care where your feet are or where you are aiming.
If I am hitting driver, the ball is opposite my big toe. If I want to hit it lower, I'll move it back a few inches. If I'm hitting mid irons, the ball would be in the middle, wedges nearer the back foot etc. So the ball position is determined by the shot I'm trying to hit.
And as for the aim.....
If you had a friend who aimed a way right but hit the middle of the fairway every time, would you advise him to change his aim and swing path?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I have had to have ‘lessons‘ to cure my shanking…as I was unable to identify what I was doing wrong, and indeed what I was doing differently from when I got to 6 handicap and when I didn’t shank it, or at least kept it to the rarity as all golfers will have.
What was identified as the root problem basically had come about as a result of teaching myself, using Hogans book as my Bible - and never having had any lessons.
The solution is a simple one…change my default/standard swing path. Sounds easy eh? Well having done it ‘my way’ for 40yrs it’s proving to be far from easy. I know what I have to do, and oddly in my head (and as my pro tells me) that’s little to do with my ‘swing‘ as such.
Once I have changed my swing path at point of striking the ball I can think ‘what next’…but until then my pro has given me my task, and almost a year since he did I am still working on it. Change can be difficult, long and sometimes painful. But the reward of achieving my objective will make it worthwhile.
As I say to Academy members that I take out for a few holes…I can show them how to get the ball round in a decent number of shots but it’s not my place to do anything about their golf swing…I know diddly-squat about that stuff - that’s the job of their teaching pro.
Don‘t see the need for lessons? Bash on and good luck. But watch out for problems being stored up for the future, because in my experience you might not spot them until they are damned hard to fix - and lessons and a lot of hard work might well be the only way.
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bobmac
Major Champion
One of the hardest things to do.
And as it uses practically all your concentration, if you try and change some thing else, the swing path will revert back to where it was.
Rather than changing the swing path, I'd rather see golfers change the aim and let the swing go where it wants.
eg
If your natural swing path you've used for 40 years is 20yds left of your target, rather than trying to change a 40 year habit, just aim 20 yards right. Now your swing can go where it wants ie straight. You may have to strengthen your grip slightly to ensure the clubface is square with the 'altered' swing path but if the swing path is straight and the club face is square to the path, there's a very good chance of hitting the target.
From personal experience, this works.
In the still below, the lone tree is my target
And the video below shows the result of my 'incorrect' set up
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I don't really have lessons, for a number of reasons. One of them is that my driving range swing is already different to my on-course swing, and I think my "show me your swing" swing would be even worse - a self-conscious mess. But if you are in this scenario, the best thing to do might be to have a playing lesson. I've never done it myself but I suspect that would be of most benefit to me if I did want a lesson. That way I'd be focused on playing golf the way I normally do, and the pro would get a more accurate view of my game. Not the weird self-conscious swing I may do when there is no target and I know someone is watching over my shoulder for mistakes.
I had the same problem doing an iron-fitting last year. It was in an indoor studio so feeling slightly claustrophobic, just hitting at a screen whereas normally my golf routine is target-focused. Ended up shanking half the balls and the fitting was a waste of time.
I had the same problem doing an iron-fitting last year. It was in an indoor studio so feeling slightly claustrophobic, just hitting at a screen whereas normally my golf routine is target-focused. Ended up shanking half the balls and the fitting was a waste of time.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
indeed. Every shot I hit on the range or on the course I have to really concentrate on what I must do. Others playing with me will say that I seem a bit obsessed with ‘practicing’ on the golf course; that I should leave practice on the range, and that I should just relax and enjoy my golf. I do tell them, and as you say, were I to just relax and play a shot there is a very high probability that I will instantly revert to my old path…and shank the ball. Because that is exactly what happens ?
bobmac
Major Champion
I can tell you this, it wont get a lot easier, unless you hit 1000s of balls and even then, the old swing will just be hiding, waiting to pounce.
Adjust your aim, let your swing go where it wants and enjoy the long walk down the middle
Tommygun16
Member
Exactly this. The moment I'm watched by a pro it falls apart. I had exactly the same issue during a club fitting too.
I think some people are misinterpreting my view on this thread. I don't think lessons are useless. My issue is that I am such a beginner, with no consistent swing, that a pro who uses a 'show me your swing' approach is wasting their time and my money, because the swing they see and try and fix will change daily. I need to be taught a swing first!
BiMGuy
LIV Bot, (But Not As Big As Mel) ?
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Do you sit down with the pro and chat about this before your first lesson. Lessons are a 2 way thing and it is important that the pro knows what you need/expect out of the lesson
bobmac
Major Champion
Lesson 1 for newcomers.
This is how you hold it.
This is how you stand at the start.
This is how you stand at the end.
That's it.
You may feel you have a different swing every day but you probably don't.
Sure, there will be slight differences but the pro will see the general shape of the set-up and swing.
Your main problem is you don't trust your pro and you think ''there is a massive flaw'' with their approach to teaching which means you'll have no confidence in the advice being given.
You have to either learn to trust your pro or teach yourself watching Youtube.
See post no.3
Tommygun16
Member
Yes I know and I do, but the approach so far from each has been to fall back on..."ok let me just see how you're swinging at the moment...." and there it goes. I did once explicitly ask to be told exactly e.g. how to address the ball as I wasn't feeling comfortable with it and I was just told "it's fine, it looks good" but it clearly wasn't as I kept falling over my feet with weight on the toes (I only figured this out months later myself - sounds obvious but it wasn't at the time). I ended up watching a few youtube videos and went right back to basics, which fixed several issues at set up. It scares me that I could have still been here 6 months later not able to touch the ball. I'm still not there, of course.
Tommygun16
Member
1. That would be a start. Not had it yet.
2. I'm quite analytical and my swing does vary hugely - I can release my wrists or not; I can fire my hips or not; I can swing to the outside or not. The list goes on.
bobmac
Major Champion
I presume you have filmed your swing and watched all these problems ?
Tommygun16
Member
Yes and no. My pro(s) have filmed me and sometimes the errors are obvious and can be rectified e.g. swinging over the top.
But the 'feelings' I have described are very subtle and often can't be obviously picked up on camera, e.g. where my weight is and what I do with my wrists at split seconds.
I filmed myself the other day and quite honestly couldn't see any difference between the good one and bad one.
