bobmac
Major Champion
Going by your responses so far, I'd suggest Youtube is probably your best bet as you seem determined to be right and not listen to anyone who has a differing opinion.
Can lessons be a waste of time?
- Thread starter Tommygun16
- Start date
Going by your responses so far, I'd suggest Youtube is probably your best bet as you seem determined to be right and not listen to anyone who has a differing opinion.
Tommygun16
Member
The irony is the exact same could be said of you, who clearly has a contrary view to me and has sought only to pick holes rather than consider my experiences with the pro(s) I have seen.
If I had said above that I could easily see all the variations in my swing then that would be easy to fix, including for a pro. You seem unable to comprehend that a lot of it stems from 'feels' (vs reals) and that the approach used by the people I have seen so far hasn't really helped much. I suggest you stop commenting now as you're not interested in helping.
bobmac
Major Champion
I'm done.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
No one has a consistent repeatable swing. Every single one is different. You will have tendencies and patterns. There really isn’t much between flushing one and shanking one.
Try looking at Adam Young as he focuses more skill development than swing mechanics.
As Bob said. There are a small number of laws that affect ball flight, and the ball doesn’t care how you swing to get there.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
This is hilarious, you are actually declining advice from the one guy here who can help you.
For what my advice is worth, you should listen to Bobmac.
Tommygun16
Member
Hi Val. Thanks for joining in at this point. I'm sure Bobmac doesn't need any help here. You both look like you've been on this site a while.
Interestingly enough, Bobmac didn't actually ask me anything directly on here until only a few messages ago. He immediately assessed that I didn't trust my pro and my swing doesn't really have any variations.
Ergo - made his mind up and my experiences were null and void. The Pros must have been doing a fantastic job.
Despite that, I still answered his questions politely, only to be ironically told that I had a closed mind.
Thanks for the 'help' but I'll pass thanks.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
As I have been working on this change for over a year I have pretty much been able to replicate what I do on the practice ground by what I do in my pre-shot routine for every shot other than around the green chips…which for me is thinking fade; aimpoint left of where I want my ball to end up; and really feel myself hitting the ball to create fade spin.
But as you say. If for any shot I think about doing anything else with my swing I can lose my discipline and it can go wrong. Fortunately I am now able to keep disciplined about my pre-shot routine to enable me to knock it round in mid to high SFs over par, on pretty much any course I play. Plus, as my pro says when we review a round, I usually have plenty of low hanging fruit that with a bit of care can see me 3 or 4 shots lower.
On point of OP. For me lessons have been absolutely essential, but what I have been tasked to do I would have failed on, and so I might have deemed lessons as being useless, had I not spent a lot of quite intense time working on it on the range.
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Val
Ryder Cup Winner
I've read your replies and yes he's right, you have a closed mind. Like I say, he is the one guy who can help you here as he is a PGA pro.
Anyway.....
Enjoy your golf
Tommygun16
Member
Thank you for that reasoned and considered response, where you completely addressed my issues outlined above. For a second I was concerned you were just going to blindly support your old mate Bob.
Enjoy!
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
My old mate? I don't know him other from what he posts here and he's been a great help to many over the years.
Like I say, he's the one guy who could help but you've dismissed. Good luck at finding answers
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
The important point to learn in Golf is the correct 'impact condition'. If that's not right all the swinging of the arms, gripping the club, turning the hips etc are pointless as they are only important as vehicles to get to that good impact condition.
I've had countless lessons over the years with various PGA Pros but not one of them explained clearly to me how the clubface needs to make contact with the ball. All bad shots are due to the club making poor impact and not what happens before or after. If your brain clearly understands the exact task it needs you to make then it will take care of how your body needs to move. If you were to throw a ball as far as possible, snap a towel, drive a nail into a doorpost then you wouldn't need to concentrate on the way your shoulders, wrists, hips, feet etc should react to allow you to carry out the task, you already know how to do it.
Lesson one should show you a golf ball at rest and the way differing golf clubs need to approach and make sound contact with the ball. Too many golfers spend a lifetime trying to help the ball in the air, cut across it, hit behind it because their brains don't have a clear understanding of good impact conditions.
I've had countless lessons over the years with various PGA Pros but not one of them explained clearly to me how the clubface needs to make contact with the ball. All bad shots are due to the club making poor impact and not what happens before or after. If your brain clearly understands the exact task it needs you to make then it will take care of how your body needs to move. If you were to throw a ball as far as possible, snap a towel, drive a nail into a doorpost then you wouldn't need to concentrate on the way your shoulders, wrists, hips, feet etc should react to allow you to carry out the task, you already know how to do it.
Lesson one should show you a golf ball at rest and the way differing golf clubs need to approach and make sound contact with the ball. Too many golfers spend a lifetime trying to help the ball in the air, cut across it, hit behind it because their brains don't have a clear understanding of good impact conditions.
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Orikoru
Tour Winner
At the same time though, you can't say all pros have all the answers for every golfer can you? This particular golfer obviously requires a different approach to that of the pros he's tried and of Bob's.
Bob has helped countless people on here for sure, but that doesn't mean his advice is exactly right for everyone every time does it? It's only his learned opinion.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Exactly this…this is the philosophy of my pro and his team and how they teach…all levels of golf, including me. And it works for me as I think of my dad (an old school cabinetmaker) and how effortless and perfectly he would drive in nails…he wasn‘t thinking backswing and follow through…
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Which is fair but to dismiss his opinion on the way he did was hilarious. The OP has his own view of how he wants to progress and for me it appears that if you can't offer his way of thinking then you're wrong.
I wish the OP well in pursuit of golfing improvement. As we all know, it ain't easy.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Truth on both sides I suspect. Perhaps he just recognises Bob's approach as being similar to the pros he's already tried that he wasn't happy with. I know it can be frustrating when you want to do things a certain and it goes against what the majority are saying to you, especially with some of the more traditional-thinkers on this forum.
Tommygun16
Member
I think you're read the thread backwards. Look again - he dismissed me as being closed minded etc after I was politely answering his questions, simply because my approach/thoughts clearly didn't chime with his. My retreat from that conversation came afterwards.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
No, I read it the whole way through as written.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Not read the entire thread, but:
As handicapped golfers, and especially the higher the handicap, of course we have inconsistent shots. Fats, thins, slices, hooks, shanks all in amongst some decent shots as well. But, I can assure you that most of us have consistent flaws that result in these issues. Don't be fooled that you have an abysmal swing when you hit an awful shot, and are swinging like McIlroy when you flush it.
A good professional should be able to spot what your major flaw or flaws are, and come up with some good swing thoughts and techniques for you to overcome this. Regardless of how you are hitting it. However, due to the unfortunate issue of muscle memory, it takes a while to work on these. And, even if you achieve the changes required longer term, it may mean there are other issues that you then need to iron out. For example, habits that you got into to counter bad swing technique and therefore worked to some extent, but now causing you more grief now you solved the original problem.
Lessons will probably be most effective in the immediate term to the extreme beginner golfer. Get rid of some basic flaws straight away. Much harder for more experienced golfers, who have these bad habits ingrained within their muscle memory. They will work (with a decent pro), but it takes a lot of dedicated work to make the changes to your game, otherwise it is so easy to slip back into what you were doing before anyway. I reckon most of us do not have the patience to put the practice in. At best, we may hit a few shots at a range on a flat mat, end up endlessly swing driver to no particular target. At worst, we just try and make the changes while playing a round, and immediately get disheartened when we don't hit the perfect shot, and then start thinking about what else we can change, never discussed at the lesson.
As handicapped golfers, and especially the higher the handicap, of course we have inconsistent shots. Fats, thins, slices, hooks, shanks all in amongst some decent shots as well. But, I can assure you that most of us have consistent flaws that result in these issues. Don't be fooled that you have an abysmal swing when you hit an awful shot, and are swinging like McIlroy when you flush it.
A good professional should be able to spot what your major flaw or flaws are, and come up with some good swing thoughts and techniques for you to overcome this. Regardless of how you are hitting it. However, due to the unfortunate issue of muscle memory, it takes a while to work on these. And, even if you achieve the changes required longer term, it may mean there are other issues that you then need to iron out. For example, habits that you got into to counter bad swing technique and therefore worked to some extent, but now causing you more grief now you solved the original problem.
Lessons will probably be most effective in the immediate term to the extreme beginner golfer. Get rid of some basic flaws straight away. Much harder for more experienced golfers, who have these bad habits ingrained within their muscle memory. They will work (with a decent pro), but it takes a lot of dedicated work to make the changes to your game, otherwise it is so easy to slip back into what you were doing before anyway. I reckon most of us do not have the patience to put the practice in. At best, we may hit a few shots at a range on a flat mat, end up endlessly swing driver to no particular target. At worst, we just try and make the changes while playing a round, and immediately get disheartened when we don't hit the perfect shot, and then start thinking about what else we can change, never discussed at the lesson.
The main problem with lessons is that teachers simply dont know what the essentials are to make a good swing. So they teach cosmetics, or what is visible in the swings of some good golfers according to the fashion of the moment, and hope that the pupil improves. Most are utterly ignorant of science and physics, and speak the most appalling technically incorrect rubbish.
So it is pot luck. Their random fiddle with your swing, of promted tips and urgings to change your action, are little better than making a few moves on a rubiks cube while blind folded - in theory the pieces could all move into place to solve the puzzle, but the chances are overwhelmingly that the result is just a different version of mess.
So it is pot luck. Their random fiddle with your swing, of promted tips and urgings to change your action, are little better than making a few moves on a rubiks cube while blind folded - in theory the pieces could all move into place to solve the puzzle, but the chances are overwhelmingly that the result is just a different version of mess.
evemccc
Well-known member
I don’t mean to be rude if it’s not, but is this comment meant as a joke?
