Bunker linings.

[clubchamp98]

Last year the club lined all our bunkers with a felt type lining.
Now I know if this interferes with swing or stance you can claim a drop for artificial stuff in the bunker.

A question was asked that If you hit the lining that you could not see under the sand can you play the shot again.

This is a big complaint at the moment with the very dry sand falling off the slopes in the bunkers.

 

[thegoldenbear]

Would say this is interference from an Outside Agency and therefore is rub of the green and ball should be played as it lies. Rule 19.1

 

[rulefan]

The lining is an Immovable Obstruction and free relief in the bunker is available under Rule 24-2b(ii).

There is a Decision relating to a movable part of an immovable obstruction but that is concerned with the part being designed to be movable. This does apply here.

Edir: Ignore answer to a different question

In this case, no recourse to playing again.

 

[thegoldenbear]

The lining is an Immovable Obstruction and free relief in the bunker is available under Rule 24-2b(ii).

Absolutely, but that's not what he's asking

 

[clubchamp98]

The lining is an Immovable Obstruction and free relief in the bunker is available under Rule 24-2b(ii).

There is a Decision relating to a movable part of an immovable obstruction but that is concerned with the part being designed to be movable. This does apply here.

Edir: Ignore answer to a different question

In this case, no recourse to playing again.

Thanks this is what I thought.

I am asking as one member broke his wrist yesterday when his club hit the lining it ripped and stopped his club dead, much like hitting a tree root.

The amount of complaints club is getting is rising and now this has injured someone I think it could be a H&S issue as you can’t see under the sand.

The traditional splash shot out of sand can’t be played with these linings as the sands not deep enough in places and we are just guessing.

 

[clubchamp98]

Would say this is interference from an Outside Agency and therefore is rub of the green and ball should be played as it lies. Rule 19.1

Can this be classed as outside agency if it’s part of the course.?

OA is something that’s nothing to do with the course I thought!

 

[thegoldenbear]

Can this be classed as outside agency if it’s part of the course.?

OA is something that’s nothing to do with the course I thought!

It's very similar to these decisions which are about a ball in motion deflected by course equipment / obstructions such as marker posts or sprinkler heads

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf...tside-Agency#CDD2710461AB4C55B4C6E2162EC23AE2

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf...-Local-Rules#0882AE32B82242C78B4E1B6765C9A180

 

[clubchamp98]

One question that was asked was.
” If a player takes relief from a lining in the bunker ! Drops his ball then proceeds to hit the lining under the sand that he could not see, has he taken relief or is he still on the obstruction.”?...

Splitting hairs I know but if you take relief from a path you can’t stand on the path you must take full relief.

This might be hard to do if obstruction is under the sand in the whole bunker!

 

[clubchamp98]

It's very similar to these decisions which are about a ball in motion deflected by course equipment / obstructions such as marker posts or sprinkler heads

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf...tside-Agency#CDD2710461AB4C55B4C6E2162EC23AE2

https://www.randa.org/Rules-of-Golf...-Local-Rules#0882AE32B82242C78B4E1B6765C9A180

I can’t see the similarity between these and a bunker lining where the ball is stationary.

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks this is what I thought.

I am asking as one member broke his wrist yesterday when his club hit the lining it ripped and stopped his club dead, much like hitting a tree root.

The amount of complaints club is getting is rising and now this has injured someone I think it could be a H&S issue as you can’t see under the sand.

The traditional splash shot out of sand can’t be played with these linings as the sands not deep enough in places and we are just guessing.

Maybe you should be trying the Branden Grace method to get a drop to where there is more sand

 

[clubchamp98]

Maybe you should be trying the Branden Grace method to get a drop to where there is more sand

Thats the main problem you can’t tell where the sand is and where it isn’t deep enough to play a proper bunker shot.

And it’s not just me!
The members are worried about their health.
Broken wrist is a nightmare not just for golf but the lads/ girls have to go to work , and in my opinion they are being put at risk!..

 

[rulefan]

One question that was asked was.
” If a player takes relief from a lining in the bunker ! Drops his ball then proceeds to hit the lining under the sand that he could not see, has he taken relief or is he still on the obstruction.”?...

Splitting hairs I know but if you take relief from a path you can’t stand on the path you must take full relief.

This might be hard to do if obstruction is under the sand in the whole bunker!

It might be worth looking at Decision 33-8/8 if there areknown areas in the bunker where there is plenty of sand.
Otherwise the whole bunker should be taken out of play and declared GUR Play Prohibited.

 

[clubchamp98]

It might be worth looking at Decision 33-8/8 if there areknown areas in the bunker where there is plenty of sand.
Otherwise the whole bunker should be taken out of play and declared GUR Play Prohibited.

cant see them taking the bunkers out of play as EVERY ONE has been lined.

The big problem for me is if you take relief and drop in the bunker it plugs so the ball is closer to the lining .
We just can’t get the club under the ball and it’s like playing a bunker shot off a range mat.

Thanks .

 

[Colin L]

If there is a real danger of injury to players, what choice does the club have other than to remove or isolate the source of the danger?

 

[rulefan]

For every broken wrist there will be an expensive lawsuit.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Why not just put more sand in the bunkers?

 

[clubchamp98]

Why not just put more sand in the bunkers?

Thats what we asked for but the way they are designed the banks are to steep and when the sand gets dry it all falls off.

They need a overhaul imo

 

[clubchamp98]

For every broken wrist there will be an expensive lawsuit.

Yes I heard the lad is considering it .
The club have had enough warnings with members voicing their opinions and lots have put it in writing.

 

[Piece]

Thanks this is what I thought.

I am asking as one member broke his wrist yesterday when his club hit the lining it ripped and stopped his club dead, much like hitting a tree root.

The amount of complaints club is getting is rising and now this has injured someone I think it could be a H&S issue as you can’t see under the sand.

The traditional splash shot out of sand can’t be played with these linings as the sands not deep enough in places and we are just guessing.

I hear this loud and clear. I lost count the number of times I've knifed it into next week as the club bounces off the lining. I've just had to suck it up.

 

[clubchamp98]

I hear this loud and clear. I lost count the number of times I've knifed it into next week as the club bounces off the lining. I've just had to suck it up.

Have you worked out a shot as I have tried everything with little success.?
Best is 60* 5 bounce square face and just nip it like a flop shot.
Its good when it works but very high tariff.