Brexit Two Months On

[Foxholer]

Much of what you say is good although we wont be able to implement a lot until we have broken free of the EU as regulations prohibit us.

Those Regulations you seem to be referring to are not necessarily 'evil'! They are aimed at preventing member states from (effectively) being corrupt, thus allowing a 'level playing field' for competing companies within the EU and for member states bidding for companies to base their operations within Europe!

ECJ would not deem the likes of Corp Tax rates, VAT etc an issue as long as they apply universally in the member state - ie. not for a specific deal! That would be deemed to be 'unfair to other member states' so would be ruled against!

That seems to me to be entirely fair - and proper!

 

[Tashyboy]

So Tony Blair has crawled out from where ever and said that the remainers are the insurgents now and must do all they can to make sure that the UK remains in Europe. An odious man indeed.
This country's democracy is based upon one man one vote. The people have spoken. I wish him, Corbyn and Sturgeon would be cast in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Fair enough although I suspect you want a Non-Brexit Brexit, one where we are in the single market, have free movement of people, pay into the EU coffers and accept the ECJ over British Law. To me that's not Brexit at all.

At least you seem to know what Brexit means - maybe you can tell our PM as she doesn't. There is no such thing as a non-Brexit Brexit - as Brexit isn't defined.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And you'd be correct!

It's access to the single market that is desired (I believe the 'soft' Brexit), at least be me! If that involves/requires some sort of fee to allow it to happen, then that may be acceptable - though if it's a sizeable one, then that's a tariff by another name! It certainly shouldn't involve a fee that varies with GDP, nor require free movement of people! Likewise, the ECJ would become irrelevant to the UK as it only makes rulings on EU law/matters.

Whether that can be negotiated or not is only going to be found out after Article 50 has been triggered.

Not necessarily so, as it is likely that anything that we produce or provide to the EU will have to comply with the rulings of the ECJ that impact products and services etc. And any UK regulations to assure compliance with EU standards that we build into UK law in this respect, will have to be reviewed and amended accordingly on an ongoing basis as judgements come down from the ECJ. Not exactly what Leavers might have hoped for I suggest.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So Tony Blair has crawled out from where ever and said that the remainers are the insurgents now and must do all they can to make sure that the UK remains in Europe. An odious man indeed.
This country's democracy is based upon one man one vote. The people have spoken. I wish him, Corbyn and Sturgeon would be cast in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean.

What is odious about what he said - in fact did you listen to the interview on R4 Today prog this morning - I did. I suspect not as he was 100% clear, and repeatedly so, that Brexit was a done deal - the UK is leaving the EU. But also that it is incumbent upon we Remainers to try and ensure the best possible leaving arrangements - and that these arrangements should not be driven by hard-line determinants that were not stated explicitly by Leave for the vote.

And your grasp of democracy isn't that great if you would deny Corbyn, Sturgeon and Blair a vote.

 

[Paperboy]

And your grasp of democracy isn't that great if you would deny Corbyn, Sturgeon and Blair a vote.

Lol, he's not denying them a vote, he just wishes them to be adrift in a big ocean

 

[chrisd]

Lol, he's not denying them a vote, he just wishes them to be adrift in a big ocean

Give them a postal vote by all means!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

And your grasp of democracy isn't that great if you would deny Corbyn, Sturgeon and Blair a vote.

Sturgeon is a great example of democracy.......just keep banging on and on until she gets the result she wants

 

[Tashyboy]

What is odious about what he said - in fact did you listen to the interview on R4 Today prog this morning - I did. I suspect not as he was 100% clear, and repeatedly so, that Brexit was a done deal - the UK is leaving the EU. But also that it is incumbent upon we Remainers to try and ensure the best possible leaving arrangements - and that these arrangements should not be driven by hard-line determinants that were not stated explicitly by Leave for the vote.

And your grasp of democracy isn't that great if you would deny Corbyn, Sturgeon and Blair a vote.

So Tony wants the remainers to get the best deal for Brexit. Well al take a chance at being proven thick but, am sure the government don't want to negotiate the worst leaving deal. Thanks for that advice Tony.
PS, I did not say he was odious for what he said I think he is an odious man for events he presided over. It is a personal view, one in which people share and one in which some don't. I suspect the same people that like him also have a poster of Corbyn on there bedroom wall.

 

[Foxholer]

Not necessarily so, as it is likely that anything that we produce or provide to the EU will have to comply with the rulings of the ECJ that impact products and services etc. And any UK regulations to assure compliance with EU standards that we build into UK law in this respect, will have to be reviewed and amended accordingly on an ongoing basis as judgements come down from the ECJ. Not exactly what Leavers might have hoped for I suggest.

Indeed, I tried to include that aspect in my post, but couldn't find a satisfactory set of words! So 'virtually' or 'largely' irrelevant... would probably have been more appropriate. As for the actual involvement of/with the ECJ, that ability to appeal to it on trade-related matters would have to be built into the deal!

However, part of the 'cost' of leaving the EU is/will be losing any say in the actual formation of Regulations (Laws) and Directives (Orders for Member States to create covering Laws). So, except for the ability to appeal to the ECJ on the basis that an action by a member state actually broke a Regulation, or that a Directive was not followed, UK would have no say about against anything an EU member state - or indeed the EU itself - actually does! Any change to how EU licenses Banks, quotas for Fishing or standards for products, for example, would simply have to be accepted - unless some mechanism is built into the 'Brexit deal'! The establishment of what to include in the 'Deal' is what is going to take the most effort!

 

[delc]

Its good news on Nissan. It was interesting to see the Tory fella squirm in his seat saying 'no-cheque book' on QT. Irrespective of the fact that cheque book or not, I am happy to see the Govt do something positive rather than dragging everyone down with 'no running commentary'. A few more Nissan deals and it will do wonders to confidence and there are plenty of opportunities for the govt to do - Westland, Banks, Siemens, Steel etc. Get some more marquee clients in and not just in London and we will all be smiling. Beyond the big boys, the govt should look at SME business which form the backbone of this country. Why dont we look at cutting corp tax for SME or VAT passthrus. They need something to counter balance the fall in the pound, give them the right stimulus. The GBP is likely to fall further as we get closer to the self inflicted March deadline, so lets see something in the Autumn statement that can help...
.

Quite a few foreign owned car companies still to go! Apparently the Vauxhall plant in Luton may be under threat of closure if we leave the EU.

 

[Foxholer]

Quite a few foreign owned car companies still to go! Apparently the Vauxhall plant in Luton may be under threat of closure if we leave the EU.

Or even if we don't!

It, or many of the jobs there, has/have been 'under threat' several times in the past!

 

[delc]

Indeed, I tried to include that aspect in my post, but couldn't find a satisfactory set of words! So 'virtually' or 'largely' irrelevant... would probably have been more appropriate. As for the actual involvement of/with the ECJ, that ability to appeal to it on trade-related matters would have to be built into the deal!

However, part of the 'cost' of leaving the EU is/will be losing any say in the actual formation of Regulations (Laws) and Directives (Orders for Member States to create covering Laws). So, except for the ability to appeal to the ECJ on the basis that an action by a member state actually broke a Regulation, or that a Directive was not followed, UK would have no say about against anything an EU member state - or indeed the EU itself - actually does! Any change to how EU licenses Banks, quotas for Fishing or standards for products, for example, would simply have to be accepted - unless some mechanism is built into the 'Brexit deal'! The establishment of what to include in the 'Deal' is what is going to take the most effort!

The best Brexit deal is probably not to Brexit at all! That way we keep our representation in EU affairs.

 

[SocketRocket]

Not necessarily so, as it is likely that anything that we produce or provide to the EU will have to comply with the rulings of the ECJ that impact products and services etc. And any UK regulations to assure compliance with EU standards that we build into UK law in this respect, will have to be reviewed and amended accordingly on an ongoing basis as judgements come down from the ECJ. Not exactly what Leavers might have hoped for I suggest.

Surely that's the same for China, Japan, USA and every other country, it wouldn't be a special punishment for the UK It's no different than the way we already trade with countries like the USA.

 

[Foxholer]

The best Brexit deal is probably not to Brexit at all! That way we keep our representation in EU affairs.

Tough! That question was put at the Referendum and Brexit was the result!

To do anything else would be like cheating at Golf! Not all that difficult to do, but completely immoral!

 

[delc]

Tough! That question was put at the Referendum and Brexit was the result!

To do anything else would be like cheating at Golf! Not all that difficult to do, but completely immoral!

But on the day of the referendum did people realise that the Pound would collapse and all the other difficulties involved in Brexiting? The Leave campaign assured us that everything would go smoothly and other countries would be queuing up to sign trade deals with us: The reality is somewhat different to that! Would we still get the same result if the referendum was re-run today?

 

[Foxholer]

But on the day of the referendum did people realise that the Pound would collapse and all the other difficulties involved in Brexiting? Would we still get the same result if the referendum was re-run today?

It matters not a jot!

If the Remain campaign didn't get its message across well enough, that was their fault!

Now suck it up, just as you need to if an election doesn't go 'the right way' for you! That's Democracy!

 

[delc]

It matters not a jot!

If the Remain campaign didn't get its message across well enough, that was their fault!

Now suck it up, just as you need to if an election doesn't go 'the right way' for you! That's Democracy!

It matters quite a lot in my opinion! Should we let the UK go down to tubes just to keep a load of racists, bigots and xenophobes happy? I realise that not all Leave voters are like this, but a significant number of them are.

 

[Foxholer]

It matters quite a lot in my opinion! Should we let the UK go down to tubes just to keep a load of racists, bigots and xenophobes happy? I realise that not all Leave voters are like this, but a significant number of them are.

That won't be the reason why UK goes down the tubes! Plenty of folk thought UK was going down the tubes BECAUSE it was in the EU!

Brexit WILL (AND MUST!) HAPPEN!

And btw. I voted Remain!

If you can't accept the result, your qualifications for being a UK citizen are highly questionable!

Edit. Perhaps I should congratulate you on being a typical whingeing Pom!

 

[Deleted member 18645]

Should we let the UK go down to tubes just to keep a load of racists, bigots and xenophobes happy? I realise that not all Leave voters are like this, but a significant number of them are.

Should we let the UK allegedly go down the tubes and have another vote just to keep a bunch of Europhiles, moaners and people unable to deal with democracy happy?