Brexit Two Months On

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why waste any more time on Delc's comments. They are inconsistent and unintelligent, best to let him exist in his own little confused world. At least DFT is a Troll and is trying to wind people up.

Some might say that it takes one to know one

 

[MegaSteve]

Really? We are still regularly employing nurses from Spain, Ireland and Portugal, healthcare assistants and cleaners from Poland and Bulgaria amongst others and have just taken on radiographers from Sweden, Italy and France. They clearly don't feel put off by Brexit or that Reading is a dangerous and xenophobic place to live and work. Pure rubbish

One gets the impression the NHS would rather employ qualified folk from overseas rather than invest in training programs...

 

[SocketRocket]

Some might say that it takes one to know one

Exactly

 

[SocketRocket]

One gets the impression the NHS would rather employ qualified folk from overseas rather than invest in training programs...

The Government have made a commitment to train more Doctors. I think it's a disgrace that we run the NHS on a basis that relies on us poaching doctors, Nurses etc from other countries that have paid to train them and in many cases much poorer countries than ourselves. Shame on us, lets get real and fund the training of or own medical professionals.

 

[delc]

At risk of bringing personal experience and fact (and potentially common sense) into the debate so soon again, I'd point out to delc that we wouldn't have some of these resources without the immigrants who keep them going. I had life saving heart surgery earlier this year delc; the vast majority of those in theatre at the time, and involved in my aftercare, were immigrants, and I am extremely grateful to them for the treatment and care I received, which was beyond reproach.

To be honest, amongst the English unemployed, or unemployable in a large number of cases, that I have met, both personally but largely professionally, I can't think of too many that were of sufficient calibre to have replaced the immigrants that saved me. So before you run them all down as a drain on our society, consider what the state of some of our resources would be like without the valuable contribution they make.

I have no desire to see all immigrants banned, just a desire to be able to welcome those who will make a valuable contribution to our society and politely decline admission to those who will not make a contribution or who seek to undermine it.

I am not disagreeing with you, but nevertheless our area has suffered a large increase in population, partly due to immigrants and their children, but without comensurate increases in roads, schools and hospitals. The traffic is much much worse than it was only 5 or 6 years ago!

 

[Old Skier]

but a significant number of them are.

And I know a significant who arnt so perhaps you should keep your un-democratic federalist views locked up in the locker or stop knocking about with racists and bigots.

 

[delc]

And I know a significant who arnt so perhaps you should keep your un-democratic federalist views locked up in the locker or stop knocking about with racists and bigots.

I shouldn't think that you get too many immigrants coming to North Devon!

 

[Old Skier]

I shouldn't think that you get too many immigrants coming to North Devon!

Obviously not one for keeping abreast of the news.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

One gets the impression the NHS would rather employ qualified folk from overseas rather than invest in training programs...

I sense a fishing trip but what the heck! The bottom line is there simply isn't the numbers of trained staff nurses, midwives, and radiographers (and many other specialities on top of that) either coming out of full time training or experienced nursing staff looking to move roles. That's not just happening at my trust, but up and down the country at I would suggest close to 99% of all hospitals (hence huge agency spend). That is simple fact. Those coming from overseas, especially Portugal Ireland and Spain, got through training programmes acceptable to the NMC to be comparable to what UK students go through, and if not the nurse has to go through and ONP (overseas nursing programme) to get the necessary competencies.

We also need a huge number of healthcare assistant, cleaners etc and these simply seem to attract a bigger number of European applicants already over here and living locally. Again that is simple economics and sadly they seem far more motivated to take these lower paid roles.

We as a trust are workinghard to improve our retention schemes including golden handshakes for some departments and have a robust learning and development programme in place. It's an NHS wide issue and unless government decide to reinvest the money required to get the NHS to a place capable of coping with the demands of a modern, ageing and unwell population then nothing will change. That sadly is a whole other thread that will have political ramifications and one I'm reticent to get involved in

 

[SocketRocket]

I sense a fishing trip but what the heck! The bottom line is there simply isn't the numbers of trained staff nurses, midwives, and radiographers (and many other specialities on top of that) either coming out of full time training or experienced nursing staff looking to move roles. That's not just happening at my trust, but up and down the country at I would suggest close to 99% of all hospitals (hence huge agency spend). That is simple fact. Those coming from overseas, especially Portugal Ireland and Spain, got through training programmes acceptable to the NMC to be comparable to what UK students go through, and if not the nurse has to go through and ONP (overseas nursing programme) to get the necessary competencies.

We also need a huge number of healthcare assistant, cleaners etc and these simply seem to attract a bigger number of European applicants already over here and living locally. Again that is simple economics and sadly they seem far more motivated to take these lower paid roles.

We as a trust are workinghard to improve our retention schemes including golden handshakes for some departments and have a robust learning and development programme in place. It's an NHS wide issue and unless government decide to reinvest the money required to get the NHS to a place capable of coping with the demands of a modern, ageing and unwell population then nothing will change. That sadly is a whole other thread that will have political ramifications and one I'm reticent to get involved in

You just did!

No amount of stating the current situation makes the policy of stealing NHS staff from poorer countries correct. We need to step up to the plate and invest in training our medical staff just like these other countries do, we should also make people who leave for private/overseas jobs withing 5 years of training pay the training costs back. Seems like the government is putting money into training more Doctors which is a step in the right direction.

Whats this 'Golden Handshake' for? Surely that would encourage people to leave early.

 

[SocketRocket]

I am not disagreeing with you, but nevertheless our area has suffered a large increase in population, partly due to immigrants and their children, but without comensurate increases in roads, schools and hospitals. The traffic is much much worse than it was only 5 or 6 years ago!

Maybe that's a symptom of being in your sacred EU.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You just did!

No amount of stating the current situation makes the policy of stealing NHS staff from poorer countries correct. We need to step up to the plate and invest in training our medical staff just like these other countries do, we should also make people who leave for private/overseas jobs withing 5 years of training pay the training costs back. Seems like the government is putting money into training more Doctors which is a step in the right direction.

Whats this 'Golden Handshake' for? Surely that would encourage people to leave early.

The golden handshake comes with a condition that if a person leaves within the three year deadline they have to repay the outstanding money, calculated on a sliding scale by payroll.

 

[SocketRocket]

The golden handshake comes with a condition that if a person leaves within the three year deadline they have to repay the outstanding money, calculated on a sliding scale by payroll.

But what is the Golden Handshake?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

But what is the Golden Handshake?

£2,000 payable in the first month's salary. Not available for every area in the hospital, just those with R&R issues and biggest agency spend as a result. Also no payable to internal transfers

 

[SocketRocket]

£2,000 payable in the first month's salary. Not available for every area in the hospital, just those with R&R issues and biggest agency spend as a result. Also no payable to internal transfers

Sorry, not how much but what. Why is it used.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Sorry, not how much but what. Why is it used.

£2,000 payable in the first month's salary. Not available for every area in the hospital, just those with R&R issues and biggest agency spend as a result. Also no payable to internal transfers

To encourage permanent staff to hospitals where they have trouble recruiting and retaining staff, and reduce agency spending, as per Homer's reply.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm pretty sure Homer made this very important point about 2580 posts ago in the other thread. Giving first hand insight into why the NHS needs foreign workers, including those from the EU , to function .

Still , I'm sure there are well thought out costed plans to overcome this once we regain our sovereignty and are no longer ruled by faceless bureaucrats from Brussels, and not just vague pie in the sky unworkable statements.

 

[MegaSteve]

I'm pretty sure Homer made this very important point about 2580 posts ago in the other thread. Giving first hand insight into why the NHS needs foreign workers, including those from the EU , to function .

Still , I'm sure there are well thought out costed plans to overcome this once we regain our sovereignty and are no longer ruled by faceless bureaucrats from Brussels, and not just vague pie in the sky unworkable statements.

If we had stuck with the EU and allowed the faceless ones continue to negotiate tee-tip, on our behalf, our NHS would be Donald Ducked...

 

[Foxholer]

If we had stuck with the EU and allowed the faceless ones continue to negotiate tee-tip, on our behalf, our NHS would be Donald Ducked...

Er...Can you kindly explain why it would be a specific problem for NHS?

 

[delc]

Er...Can you kindly explain why it would be a specific problem for NHS?

Because the big American Healthcare Corporations could sue the UK Government for restricting their profits by providing 'free' healthcare, even though we pay for it through taxation.