Brexit Two Months On

[SocketRocket]

It was the only concrete thing that those inclined on the Leave side had to hang their hat on. After all - why didn't the Leave campaign put out a 'manifesto' - pretty obvious - despite their claims of poverty it was simply that they couldn't agree on one - there being so many different and conflicting aspirations for Leave. They knew that it would certainly be a case of 'publish and be damned'. And so it is today - nobody has a clue - and all we get is Breakfast will be Breakfast; and he UK has voted to leave the EU so all you remoaners can shut up.

Well maybe we will be quiet for a while once the objectives for Brexit are published and we have time to mull over them. Meanwhile we are stuck with Leavers rejecting the £350m idea as a misinterpretation - except for Farage who now acknowledges it was a bit of a mistake (hahahaha - alomst funny that) to present it as they did - and Leave should have been clearer in correcting misconceptions being formed about it. Oh Nigel - you are a hoot, a bit of a mistake. Honest to God.

That's a rather biased and typical diatribe of your venom fueled Anti-Brexit bias.

The £350 million was a Gross sum and indeed misleading but it was not said that the saving would all go to the NHS but could be spent on projects like the NHS. It's obvious that much of it would be needed for research, Farming etc but you make of it what you want if it satisfies carrying your huge chip. You fail to mention any of the exaggerated claims from the Remain camp though.

Regarding a manifesto. Leave never had the Government machine to do this so how on earth did you expect them to have the resources and money. The Government should have created a plan 'B' for Brexit, they didn't do it as they were a blind as you to the will of the majority.

Your comments are disingenuous and come over as if made from someone bitter and twisted because they never got their own way. Get over it man and move on for crying out load!

 

[Foxholer]

That's a rather biased and typical diatribe of your venom fueled Anti-Brexit bias.
...

If anything was 'rather biased and typical diatribe' it was the 350M/week slogan!

Neither side had anything like a manifesto! It wasn't the sort of issue where a manifesto was/is appropriate! It was all about aspirations and attitudes (put mildly) or bias and bigotry (put rather less mildly)!

SILH has actually accepted the result - as have almost all, including May! It's now up to those doing the planning to actually get the decision implemented to actually perform! There is nothing wrong with holding them to account, but the must be given time to do the planning - and it's up to their masters (aka May) to be responsible for providing key milestones, to chivvy their underlings along where required and to handle any questions so they can get on with the job!

I agree that it is getting boring hearing the same 'nobody is telling us any plans' though!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's a rather biased and typical diatribe of your venom fueled Anti-Brexit bias.

The £350 million was a Gross sum and indeed misleading but it was not said that the saving would all go to the NHS but could be spent on projects like the NHS. It's obvious that much of it would be needed for research, Farming etc but you make of it what you want if it satisfies carrying your huge chip. You fail to mention any of the exaggerated claims from the Remain camp though.

Regarding a manifesto. Leave never had the Government machine to do this so how on earth did you expect them to have the resources and money. The Government should have created a plan 'B' for Brexit, they didn't do it as they were a blind as you to the will of the majority.

Your comments are disingenuous and come over as if made from someone bitter and twisted because they never got their own way. Get over it man and move on for crying out load!

Your complaining about me expressing concerns is tedious and as usual attempting to divert valid questions because you have no answers. Saying that Leave had no money is itself totally disingenuous - it does not take much money for a coordinated group to pull together a statement of what leaving the EU would mean. This did not need publishing for distribution around every household - simply getting it published in the newspapers and explained on TV would have done the job. But no - nothing. Which is hardly surprising as Leave could not even organise themselves into a single grouping - disparate individuals having different ideas of when Brexit meant.

And as is usual for Brexiteers, you pretend that 'everybody knew' what the £350m/week was. Well yes - everyone leading the campaign knew - but they miserably failed to make clear what they were talking about - and as Farage said - did not correct misconceptions in the public mind - and theyt did not because it suited the Leave campaign, and then pretend afterwards that 'everyone knew' - QED.

And of Remain exaggerations - or rather - taking upper limits of estimates and predictions - not the same as deliberately misrepresenting facts.

As Foxholder said. I have accepted we are leaving, I have not accepted we leave with arrangements that I believe will harm the country and the life-chances of my children, grandchildren and many, many others.

 

[delc]

The problem I see with Brexit is that the Remain side, backed by David Cameron & Co, didn't expect to lose, and the Leave side didn't expect to win. Therefore neither side prepared any plans as to what to do in the event of a pro Brexit vote. However the Leave campaign engaged a few charismatic politicians such as Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson, and came up with a few catchy slogans such as 'Take back control' whatever that was supposed to mean. By contrast the Remain team could only come up with the rather turgid 'project fear', without promoting the positive sides of being a member of the EU. Also Jeremy Ciorbyn's rather lukewarm support of the EU didn't exactly help. Neither did the entirely anti-EU rhetoric in the tabloid gutter press. So somehow the Leave side managed to win and now we are where we are, almost in a state of limbo!

 

[Hobbit]

I see that the Gov of the BoE may be announcing his resignation as soon as Thursday amid claims he is sorely embarrassed to get his dire predictions of gloom and despair so badly wrong. GDP up 0.5% and shares at their highest for years.

Also, the head of the WTO is predicting good things for the UK economy as it will no longer be called to support failing banks that are tied to the Euro. He recommends a quick exit, before the Deutche bank needs bailing out.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I see that the Gov of the BoE may be announcing his resignation as soon as Thursday amid claims he is sorely embarrassed to get his dire predictions of gloom and despair so badly wrong. GDP up 0.5% and shares at their highest for years.

Also, the head of the WTO is predicting good things for the UK economy as it will no longer be called to support failing banks that are tied to the Euro. He recommends a quick exit, before the Deutche bank needs bailing out.

Funny, even as I read this the radio news is telling me he plans to stay longer than his original intentions.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7c336b32-9ee0-11e6-aca7-d9d4fe48eef4

Great news for the countries within the UK who have car manufacturing plants.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Funny, even as I read this the radio news is telling me he plans to stay longer than his original intentions.

That's what I'm hearing - his original plan was to serve a 5yr term 2013-2018 - but he's decided to take the full 8yr term - to 2021. Maybe because he knows exactly what was said by individuals in the lead up to the vote?

 

[SocketRocket]

Your complaining about me expressing concerns is tedious and as usual attempting to divert valid questions because you have no answers. Saying that Leave had no money is itself totally disingenuous - it does not take much money for a coordinated group to pull together a statement of what leaving the EU would mean. This did not need publishing for distribution around every household - simply getting it published in the newspapers and explained on TV would have done the job. But no - nothing. Which is hardly surprising as Leave could not even organise themselves into a single grouping - disparate individuals having different ideas of when Brexit meant.

And as is usual for Brexiteers, you pretend that 'everybody knew' what the £350m/week was. Well yes - everyone leading the campaign knew - but they miserably failed to make clear what they were talking about - and as Farage said - did not correct misconceptions in the public mind - and theyt did not because it suited the Leave campaign, and then pretend afterwards that 'everyone knew' - QED.

And of Remain exaggerations - or rather - taking upper limits of estimates and predictions - not the same as deliberately misrepresenting facts.

As Foxholder said. I have accepted we are leaving, I have not accepted we leave with arrangements that I believe will harm the country and the life-chances of my children, grandchildren and many, many others.

Foxholer also said " agree that it is getting boring hearing the same 'nobody is telling us any plans' though!"

Your memory seems a bit lacking on the information 'Leave' gave out, you make it sound like they gave no ideas of what we may gain from Brexit. Take a look at this for example:
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html

So the hogwash Osborne and his mates gave out were not misinterpreting the facts
Get your blinkers off and stop the perpetual moaning and repetition of the same old hackneyed diatribe.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7c336b32-9ee0-11e6-aca7-d9d4fe48eef4

Great news for the countries within the UK who have car manufacturing plants.

Hoof on policy the?

Good news...unless he is slapped down by the PM and we get retractions today

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Foxholer also said " agree that it is getting boring hearing the same 'nobody is telling us any plans' though!"

Your memory seems a bit lacking on the information 'Leave' gave out, you make it sound like they gave no ideas of what we may gain from Brexit. Take a look at this for example:
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html

So the hogwash Osborne and his mates gave out were not misinterpreting the facts
Get your blinkers off and stop the perpetual moaning and repetition of the same old hackneyed diatribe.

I'll continue to ask questions if I want - Brexit means Brexit -now that's hackneyed...

And you honestly think that that link gives us anything other than slogans, and it repeats the £350m/week lie - and Turkey about to join...

 

[Foxholer]

Foxholer also said " agree that it is getting boring hearing the same 'nobody is telling us any plans' though!"

Of course, that could be easily fixed!

Even the dreaded 'management speak' plan-for-a-plan timetable would be helpful!

 

[MegaSteve]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7c336b32-9ee0-11e6-aca7-d9d4fe48eef4

Great news for the countries within the UK who have car manufacturing plants.

............


It could actually be good news for all of the UK as part of the deal is that manufacturers should seek to use more UK sourced 'items'... Tyres, batteries, exhausts etc come to mind... ie 'stuff' it doesn't make in house....

 

[Foxholer]

............


It could actually be good news for all of the UK as part of the deal is that manufacturers should seek to use more UK sourced 'items'... Tyres, batteries, exhausts etc come to mind... ie 'stuff' it doesn't make in house....

That's why it's SO important to continue to have a solid car manufacturing industry! The associated supply chain is extremely important to maintain and grow - and preferable 're-shore', something the falling pound actually helps!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Of course, that could be easily fixed!

Even the dreaded 'management speak' plan-for-a-plan timetable would be helpful!

Glad you asked for that as I'd be accused of moaning and asking the same boring questions. I get the feeling that anything that a Remainer asks is willfully misinterpreted as a moan. When in fact all that I, for instance, ask are questions and I make observations.

And so my observation on the voteleavetakecontrol website is that it presents the top level aspirations of (one of?) the groups advocating Leave. Not necessarily the aspirations of Leave but those of one of the groups - because there was more than one group and they didn't seem to be able to find sufficient common ground or agreement on key message or aspirational objectives to enable them to join up. And no detail about how they will intend achieve these aspirations and the impact achieving them will have. Though the aspirations presented are general enough and not in any way prioritised thereby covering all Leave groups.

I will also note that there is nothing I can find that mentions leaving the single market. Though it does tell us on 'Our Money Our Priorities' that (and I quote)

The EU costs us over £350 million a week - Enough to build a brand new, fully-staffed NHS Hospital every week

Now the above are observations - not moans. (and the bolding of 'every week' is not mine but the websites)

 

[Hobbit]

Funny, even as I read this the radio news is telling me he plans to stay longer than his original intentions.

It appears to depend on which (respected) broadsheet you read.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Not necessarily the aspirations of Leave but those of one of the groups - because there was more than one group and they didn't seem to be able to find sufficient common ground or agreement on key message or aspirational objectives to enable them to join up. And no detail about how they will intend achieve these aspirations and the impact achieving them will have. Though the aspirations presented are general enough and not in any way prioritised thereby covering all Leave groups

I am afraid that was just as big a problem for those in the Remain campaign. We thought the Labour Party front bench was in favour but their leader certainly was not "singing from the same hymn sheet" as the rest of us.

The whole referendum campaign was ultimately characterised by the paucity of the arguments presented by either side.

Those on the ground for Remain received no support from those at the top in the form of policies or clear arguments to present as to why we would be better remaining within the EU.

Project Fear was not something with which I was comfortable.

 

[SocketRocket]

Er...How much do YOU have to pay for prescriptions?

Whats that got to do with it
Just do one!

 

[Foxholer]

Maybe in Scotland where you get English subsidised NHS medication but we have to pay £8:40 per item.

Er...How much do YOU have to pay for prescriptions?

Whats that got to do with it
Just do one!

Well there's certainly a significant number of folk - of which I believe you to be one (I am) - in England who also don't have to pay anything for prescriptions.

And can you elaborate what the 'one' is that you wish me to do?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well there's certainly a significant number of folk - of which I believe you to be one (I am) - in England who also don't have to pay anything for prescriptions.

And can you elaborate what the 'one' is that you wish me to do?

Kings Fund 2014

http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.c...year-for-nhs-says-think-tank/20066348.article

Some 1 billion prescriptions are dispensed annually in England, with around £450m raised from prescription charges in 2012–2013. The think tank notes that while 40% of the population are liable to pay the prescription charge, in practice 90.6% of prescriptions are dispensed free of charge.