Brexit Two Months On

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I thought she might be OK - but I am getting a feeling that perhaps Theresa Maybe not up to the job. A bit too much control freakery going on, and I find micro-management to be a sign of not actually being in control and being rather out-of-depth.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I thought she might be OK - but I am getting a feeling that perhaps Theresa Maybe not up to the job. A bit too much control freakery going on, and I find micro-management to be a sign of not actually being in control and being rather out-of-depth.
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It just goes to show how opinions can differ. I feel she's doing a great job of controlling a very difficult issue in which the strong characters in her cabinet could run off at the mouth and weaken the party's position as well as the negotiating position with the EU.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Eh.... the three first ministers responses to the meeting have been widely quoted in the press and online.
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Rubbish - You had the normal "I will not agree to anything that Westminster proposes from the normal candidate, with our lady from Wales jumping on the bandwagon even though the majority in Wales want out and the NI Minister has been fairly quite.

You need to get over the fact that around 10% of the UK population are not going to be major players in this or most other things that have a major impact on the whole UK. Be happy that you have a party that is being allowed to bankrupt your country.
 
Foxholer said:
Ah! The cunning plan has been revealed!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37774292

Probably an error on Corbyn's part to confess to taking 2 days to come up with that one, but entertaining nevertheless!

And as a complete aside... what the heck was the PM wearing around her neck? Trophies perhaps? :whistle:
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Delivery was poor from both, can't help feeling that neither gives confidence 😕. We actually need a strong charismatic leader ...
 
harpo_72 said:
Delivery was poor from both, can't help feeling that neither gives confidence 😕. We actually need a strong charismatic leader ...
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I believe She'll get better! Unfortunately, I believe He won't!

For all his 'lack of clout/aura' in many areas, Cameron was actually very good at PMQs!

I still think that Yvette Cooper is Labour's best hope - plenty of 'her husband's surname' :rolleyes:, though a sense of humour wouldn't go amiss!
 
Foxholer said:
I believe She'll get better! Unfortunately, I believe He won't!

For all his 'lack of clout/aura' in many areas, Cameron was actually very good at PMQs!

I still think that Yvette Cooper is Labour's best hope - plenty of 'her husband's surname' :rolleyes:, though a sense of humour wouldn't go amiss!
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I don't think she'll get better until she stops micro-managing - so for instance Amber Rudd seems to be no more than a deputy Home Secretary at the moment - and she is not the only Cabinet/Brexit Minister she has slapped down. And as far as the Foreign Secretary and Heathrow. She should have told him - FS and Cabinet Responsibility or No FS and you can continue to campaign against Heathrow.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
"I don't think we should wait for any question of reciprocity"

I am glad that at least one ex Home Secretary is thinking straight on existing immigrants - rare it is that I agree with Michael Howard

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-leader-europe-stay-immediately-a7379706.html
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I know of at least 2 in my company who have resigned on the question of uncertainty on rights to stay, one Irish with an American wife, the other Finnish and are taking their families out of UK having been here years, when you're talking of peoples livelihoods any uncertainty in job security and right to stay will make peope leave, it's too risky to just wait it out and hope you'll be ok, this side of Brexit seems to be another example of where May cannot make the calls that need to be made as nothing in terms of details was thought through or set out before the referendum vote and she won't declare until she has reciprocity from EU. I expect some Brexiteers are happy that 'foreigners' such as these are leaving so they 'can get their country back' to coin a popular if ridiculous imo phrase but these are specialist jobs that need filled and there aren't the necessary number of trained UK people to fill them. Residency permits or temporary visas and the like aren't enough to keep people with families, I see that as more for single young workers in for example the hotels and tourism industry, people with families looking for long term work in specialist fields need more security than that.
With the £ weaking so much against the Euro they (EU citizens) probably wont want to come here any longer anyway. Problems ahead.
As for unskilled labour do we really think UK citizens are going to do the farm labouring work en masse the eastern europeans do...not a chance....imo.
 
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maxfli65 said:
I know of at least 2 in my company who have resigned on the question of uncertainty on rights to stay, one Irish with an American wife, the other Finnish and are taking their families out of UK having been here years, when you're talking of peoples livelihoods any uncertainty in job security and right to stay will make peope leave, it's too risky to just wait it out and hope you'll be ok, this side of Brexit seems to be another example of where May cannot make the calls that need to be made as nothing in terms of details was thought through or set out before the referendum vote and she won't declare until she has reciprocity from EU. I expect some Brexiteers are happy that 'foreigners' such as these are leaving so they 'can get their country back' to coin a popular if ridiculous imo phrase but these are specialist jobs that need filled and there aren't the necessary number of trained UK people to fill them. Residency permits or temporary visas and the like aren't enough to keep people with families, I see that as more for single young workers in for example the hotels and tourism industry, people with families looking for long term work in specialist fields need more security than that.
With the £ weaking so much against the Euro they (EU citizens) probably wont want to come here any longer anyway. Problems ahead.
As for unskilled labour do we really think UK citizens are going to do the farm labouring work en masse the eastern europeans do...not a chance....imo.
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Your post is all exaggeration; almost to the point of being laughable.

People always have and always will decide to move countries due to better work opportunities and the wish to better their lot. The two people you have mentioned are nothing you wouldn't find unusual at ant time and to suggest it's solely due to Brexit is gilding the lily somewhat, Irish people have had special rights to residency in the UK going back way before we joined the EU. My Son moved to the USA twelve years ago to better his lot, should we blame the EU for that? Of course not.

You are so ready to blame your own Government over giving current EU the immigrants right to stay but don't complain that the EU is not currently offering the same. Rather one sided view IMO. Do you honestly believe we will turf out all EU citizens after Brexit?

So you don't think people from places like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria etc will want to come to the UK to work anymore! Do you understand what they get paid in their own Countries and the level of benefits they get there?

You also seem to have a reality filter regarding immigration. NO ONE in their right mind is suggesting we stop all immigration, we only want to control it. There will still be the opportunity for people from the EU to come to the UK and do low skilled jobs, the only difference is there will probably be a visa system in place just like there would be if they wanted to work in the USA, Australia, New Zealand and just about every other country in the World.

Calm down Dear!
 
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SocketRocket said:
Your post is all exaggeration; almost to the point of being laughable. Glad to entertain! Some replies in blue for more entertainment!

People always have and always will decide to move countries due to better work opportunities and the wish to better their lot. I know The two people you have mentioned are nothing you wouldn't find unusual at ant time and to suggest it's solely due to Brexit is gilding the lily somewhat, Irish people have had special rights to residency in the UK going back way before we joined the EU. The Irish person has left over primarily residency uncertainty but relating to his partners US position as much as his own EU one, their call not mine. My Son moved to the USA twelve years ago to better his lot, should we blame the EU for that? Of course not.

You are so ready to blame your own Government over giving current EU the immigrants right to stay but don't complain that the EU is not currently offering the same. I have only blamed inaction on the topic per the Howard article, if you read what I wrote I said May was waiting on reciprocity to act and that was the problem - uncertainty Rather one sided view IMO. Do you honestly believe we will turf out all EU citizens after Brexit? No - didn't say that but people are leaving given lack of comment from Govt on the position

So you don't think people from places like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria etc will want to come to the UK to work anymore! Do you understand what they get paid in their own Countries and the level of benefits they get there? Thanks for the patronising socio economic lesson, unskilled eastern europeans will, perhaps more skilled workers from wealthier parts of EU wont, we'll need to see where our economy goes.

You also seem to have a reality filter regarding immigration. NO ONE in their right mind is suggesting we stop all immigration, we only want to control it. Didn't say anything about stopping all immigration, merely mentioned other access arrangements There will still be the opportunity for people from the EU to come to the UK and do low skilled jobs, the only difference is there will probably be a visa system in place just like there would be if they wanted to work in the USA, Australia, New Zealand and just about every other country in the World. Yes I basically said that already.

Calm down Dear!
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....perhaps you need to calm down??
 
SocketRocket said:
Your post is all exaggeration; almost to the point of being laughable.

People always have and always will decide to move countries due to better work opportunities and the wish to better their lot. The two people you have mentioned are nothing you wouldn't find unusual at ant time and to suggest it's solely due to Brexit is gilding the lily somewhat, Irish people have had special rights to residency in the UK going back way before we joined the EU. My Son moved to the USA twelve years ago to better his lot, should we blame the EU for that? Of course not.

You are so ready to blame your own Government over giving current EU the immigrants right to stay but don't complain that the EU is not currently offering the same. Rather one sided view IMO. Do you honestly believe we will turf out all EU citizens after Brexit?

So you don't think people from places like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria etc will want to come to the UK to work anymore! Do you understand what they get paid in their own Countries and the level of benefits they get there?

You also seem to have a reality filter regarding immigration. NO ONE in their right mind is suggesting we stop all immigration, we only want to control it. There will still be the opportunity for people from the EU to come to the UK and do low skilled jobs, the only difference is there will probably be a visa system in place just like there would be if they wanted to work in the USA, Australia, New Zealand and just about every other country in the World.

Calm down Dear!
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Absolutely no-one has a moral right to use the lives of individuals as a bargaining piece - they become hostage to fortune and it is actually rather abhorrent that many in this country seem to think that it is. Meanwhile the government does nothing to dissuade them of that notion and expectations of hard-line Leavers build that the UK will do some deportation.

Rather typical of the new PM - unable or just feart to make a decision that she knows will upset many who voted Leave - but sometimes you have to do the Right thing and not the thing that is easiest for you. And no matter which way you look at the status of existing EU citizens, right thing to do is to state that all can stay. The EU need not say anything as they have not made any suggestion that they would kick out UK citizens, it is only the UK that is stringing this along.

Besides - you have said yourself...

Do you honestly believe we will turf out all EU citizens after Brexit?

Of course we won't - so we muststop playing this silly, but nasty, game with peoples lives.

And on the Daily Politics today I hear also that Michael Gove, questioned by Andrew Neil, is in complete agreement with Howard
 
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