FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Such a short term view that so many of us have taken. I've no doubt the day will come when we regret leaving and want back in.
Brexit Two Months On
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
- Status
Such a short term view that so many of us have taken. I've no doubt the day will come when we regret leaving and want back in.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
doublebogey7
Head Pro
The irony.......................................................... thats all!!
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
I think that the next 5 to 10 years will determine if you are correct or not. If the EU implements reforms to appease the current anti EU feeling and moves back towards being a trading bloc with less of the political interference n you could be right. If it takes the opposite path and goes towards ever closer political union then I think you'll be wrong.
But of course probably the biggest factor as to whether we regret leaving Will be the success or otherwise of the UK outside of the EU.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
What is 'socialist' about what I have said. I am speaking more from my Christian beliefs and values. Peoples lives cannot be used as bargaining chips - to think otherwise is indeed callous.
But for a moment let's just put that aside and consider what the UK would actually do if the EU countries decided that UK nationals were no longer welcome (as unlikely as that is). Tell me what the UK would then do if the EU 'calls our bluff'.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
When you eat a full English Breakfast day after day it may be great to start with - but you will eventually get pretty sick of it and eventually it will impact your health - and not in a positive way. Breakfast means Breakfast means a Full English Breakfast
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Are you actually reading or listening to what the majority of economic and political commentators are saying at the moment? Over a week I will read commentators and leading articles in the Telegraph, Times, Sunday Times, Observer, Guardian, the i. And there is concern of various degrees about the way things are going and the government utterances on immigration.
You are name-calling the likes of myself and the smiling assassin, and yet you seem to have your head completely in the sand - maybe it's easier to slag us off that to admit the truth of the situation.
chrisd
Major Champion
I haven't taken a short term view. I was married when the first referendum was taken to join the "Common Market" and have lived through everything since, so I don't think things that I have personally witnessed since, haven't broadened my horizons and helped form my views of how we should carry on in the future. If we live to regret the decision it will only be because we cant see the future
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
First paragraph wasn't really what I was thinking. Long term, ever closer political, legal and economic union is the only sensible approach for the good of humanity, IMO. Obviously the U.K. is not in a place where the majority of its people are comfortable with that yet and clearly the benefits for the richer nations would be realised in much longer term than those for the poorer nations. I believe that, with or without us, the EU will eventually get it right and we will be all the poorer for not being part of it.
Second paragraph, yes that will probably be the main criterion applied by most.
I absolutely, totally agree with the sentiment. However, as others have said, its a divorce with both sides squabbling over the furniture. The EU, to protect itself and discourage other countries will play hard ball... they have no choice. And, if we are as it seems going down this road, I hope the UK does the same back.
As for only eating English Breakfast being bad for you, so is only eating croissants.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Economic 'success' is one thing - I actually have quite some concern about the future health of the country - and I'm not talking physical health.
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
That's the problem, those Commissioners etc who actually run the EU have been saying for years that they need to reform, however they never do anything pro-active to bring these about! Look at how the UK referendum and result came about - David Cameron promised one to appease the Euro sceptics in his party, but was adamant that he could negotiate a better deal for the UK and ultimately get other EU leaders and the Commission to think about reforms. Ultimately the British electorate decided that the 'deal' he brought back wasn't good or far reaching enough so it was rejected.
The way I see it, all those with anti-EU feelings across EU members states are mainly supporters of minority parties who have little or no chance of actually being elected. So look at what has happened in the EU since Brexit was announced - the EU leaders have had a lovely summit in Bratislava, which included a nice cruise and dinner down the Danube, and came out with the usual rhetoric about it's such a shame that the UK is leaving, the EU must look at a number of key issues, such as migration of workers etc, but nothing will come out of it.
The only way the EU will change is if a significant number of parties come into power in those EU Member States that were 'allies' of the UK on a number of policy issues (i.e. Belgium, Denmark, Sweden etc) and hold their own referendums on membership.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
I quite agree. It was never about the economics for me although it is depressing as it becomes increasingly obvious that the most optimistic economic assessment is we're in for a "rough ride".
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
But then so is the EU.
And as for your confidence in the EU ultimately getting it right, well they have had over 60 years now. Like chrisd I was a married man with a mortgage etc; before we had the first referendum in 1975 and it was clear then that the EU was a bureaucrats dream.
However, I hoped then and again this year that it would overcome those difficulties and achieve the aim of being a grouping together in trade of broadly like minded nations.
Unfortunately this now seems increasingly unlikely as the federalists desperately cling on to power in Brussels and Strasbourg, failing to acknowledge that their efforts to further their "United States of Europe" project is contributing to the growing dissatisfaction amongst the citizens of the member nations.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Those here who damn me as a pathetic remoaner should perhaps try downloading this morning's James O'Brien programme (LBC) - he's on at the moment. If you do you'll hear your fellow Brexiteers defending their decision for why they voted to Leave and hear their views on the current situation, and you will also hear why I despair. You want pathetic - go listen...
And in listening I now hear that his programme is being accused by Leave supporters in social media and texts etc to him of only putting through callers who haven't a clue. QED.
And in listening I now hear that his programme is being accused by Leave supporters in social media and texts etc to him of only putting through callers who haven't a clue. QED.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Possibly why I'm so out of step with many posters here, a federal Europe sounds like a great concept to me. Surely must be the way to go in the long term or are we all too bound by petty nationalism?
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
The support for independence in your home country, the Catalan and Basque movements in Spain, the proliferation of nations that was once Yugoslavia, Czech Republic and Slovakia etc; all suggests that many throughout the continent do not share your view.
A sense of national identity is not petty and differing national interests are not best served by European federalism.
I was and continue to be in favour of remaining within the EU but the prospect of a United States of Europe always has filled me with dread.
I love this concept. After all, who do you fight with if there's no national boundary. Unfortunately I just can't see it ever happening. Even supposedly modern, western countries appear to have areas where local nationalism exists... UK/Scotland independence for example.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Me too, which is why I feel brexit and Scottish independence etc are the wrong direction of travel...
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Yes - Except an independent Scotland would want to be in a Europe without boundaries - though there would be one with the rUK. I'm sure if rUK wished to apply to rejoin the EU, then Scotland wouldn't oppose the application
- Status
