Brexit Two Months On

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where in your post I quoted did you say mass deportation? You said deportation, hence my response. If you want to move the goalposts... And who has said mass deportation?

But it it's ok for the EU to use their prerogative but not for the UK to do the same? Double standards to support your argument is really poor.

And it's your interpretation to call it a mess. To 52% it isn't. To the Brexiters it's the process of positioning and negotiating.

As I did say previously - no it's not OK for the EU to kick out British nationals - but we caused this situation - and what other countries do is their affair - I am not a national of any of these countries - I am a Scot and a UK citizen. I believe the UK is so very much better than descending to the obscene level of threatening mass deportation of immigrants - what else can you call telling 3m people they have to leave. They have done nothing wrong - and some think it OK to use their lives to help sort out a mess of our creating. I wonder what the reason we would give for their deportation - the EU won't play ball? Aw diddums.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Only in Scotland:lol:

BTW forgot .....new trident Subs to be made with French Steel.

Anyone got one more for a nap hand?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

£ below the Euro at most UK Airport exchange shops now......bound to happen sometime.

I look forward to our our elected MP's voting against any government breakfast [Welsh version of Brexit] proposals.
What happens then?

BTW Scotland supporting 3rd Heathrow runway.
An interesting day in UK politics.

My MP Jeremy Hunt was a Remainer - and his constituency voted massively to Remain. Maybe I should petition him to demand visibility and a vote on the Full English Breakfast that Maid May and her Band of Breakfasteers propose as the starting point for negotiations with the EU - not our objectives - just our opening gambit.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

My MP Jeremy Hunt was a Remainer - and his constituency voted massively to Remain. Maybe I should petition him to demand visibility and a vote on the Full English Breakfast that Maid May and her Band of Breakfasteers propose as the starting point for negotiations with the EU - not our objectives - just our opening gambit.

May not be relevant if the French President gets his wish to punish the UK.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Just for you DfT (and any of our other Scottish forummers)........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVy7faNKEtM

Please note there are a couple of swear words so probably not suitable for a work environment.

 

[MarkE]

Because using fellow human beings, their lives and their families as a bargaining chip is a callous act in the extreme. Is there not even an ounce of you that feels compassion for the situation of others without your exquisite British pedigree or do you simply not care?

What a load of tosh. It's ok for the eu to use Uk citizens as bargaining chips and for us to not do likewise? How naive you are.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What a load of tosh. It's ok for the eu to use Uk citizens as bargaining chips and for us to not do likewise? How naive you are.

No - not tosh and not naïve MarkE - callous - as it appears that you are happy to be described.

The EU never wanted this. You cannot blame the EU for any of this. It is all of our own making. The EU nationals resident in the UK are here legally and most are fully integrated into society as friends, colleagues, lovers, classmates, husbands and wives. Our political bargaining with the EU should go nowhere near bartering in people - that should be unconscionable for our society and it is frankly disgusting that some think it OK.

 

[ColchesterFC]

No - not tosh and not naïve MarkE - callous - as it appears that you are happy to be described.

The EU never wanted this. You cannot blame the EU for any of this. It is all of our own making. The EU nationals resident in the UK are here legally and most are fully integrated into society as friends, colleagues, lovers, classmates, husbands and wives. Our political bargaining with the EU should go nowhere near bartering in people - that should be unconscionable for our society and it is frankly disgusting that some think it OK.

The EU is complicit in the situation we find ourselves in. Maybe the EU should have been more willing to give some concessions to Cameron when he went over to negotiate before the vote, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Rather than him coming back with what effectively amounted to nothing if they had been willing to concede on a few small points then it's possible the vote would have ended with a different result. This week the news is saying that Germany is looking to stop out of work benefits to migrants for 5 years unless they have paid into the system. Something that was denied to the UK during negotiations.

 

[SocketRocket]

As I did say previously - no it's not OK for the EU to kick out British nationals - but we caused this situation - and what other countries do is their affair - I am not a national of any of these countries - I am a Scot and a UK citizen. I believe the UK is so very much better than descending to the obscene level of threatening mass deportation of immigrants - what else can you call telling 3m people they have to leave. They have done nothing wrong - and some think it OK to use their lives to help sort out a mess of our creating. I wonder what the reason we would give for their deportation - the EU won't play ball? Aw diddums.

Can you show me a Government quote that has threatened the mass deportation of immigrants? To be frank I think you should be ashamed of yourself for stirring up such exaggerated condemnations and closed minded views.

 

[the smiling assassin]

What a load of tosh. It's ok for the eu to use Uk citizens as bargaining chips and for us to not do likewise? How naive you are.

Ironically, 'Pathetic': deserving of our pity.
I despair.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can you show me a Government quote that has threatened the mass deportation of immigrants? To be frank I think you should be ashamed of yourself for stirring up such exaggerated condemnations and closed minded views.

Since when did care and compassion for our fellows; pride in what are recognised UK values; values I thought we cherished - become close-minded?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...talks-with-europe_uk_57f3db60e4b038eb745a5783

At the conference event hosted by Conservative Home, Fox said: “I think we would all hope what we get is a totally open reciprocal agreement where UK citizens in other EU countries are free and welcome to stay there as would those who are settled in the UK.

“But again as the prime minister said. To give that away before we get into a negotiation would be to hand over one of our main cards in that negotiation and doesn’t necessarily make sense at this point.

“On the question of EU citizens. The prime minister made it very clear. We would like to be able to give a reassurance to EU nationals in the UK, that depends on reciprocation by other countries.”


The threat is clear from these words of Liam Fox - no doubt you will deny it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The EU is complicit in the situation we find ourselves in. Maybe the EU should have been more willing to give some concessions to Cameron when he went over to negotiate before the vote, then we wouldn't be in this mess. Rather than him coming back with what effectively amounted to nothing if they had been willing to concede on a few small points then it's possible the vote would have ended with a different result. This week the news is saying that Germany is looking to stop out of work benefits to migrants for 5 years unless they have paid into the system. Something that was denied to the UK during negotiations.

It may be complicit in what has happened by not bowing and scraping to the mighty and self-important UK and not giving Cameron 'enough' - it is not complicit in any way with what the government is saying in respect of the future status and 'monitoring' of the UK immigrant community. The situation is completely of our own making - we did not have to have the referendum and we did not haver to vote to Leave. Simples.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ironically, 'Pathetic': deserving of our pity.
I despair.

+1 from me on that^^^

I fear that we are heading towards being an ever-more angry, suspicious, resentful and selfish country.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ironically, 'Pathetic': deserving of our pity.
I despair.

+1 from me on that^^^

I fear that we are heading towards being an ever-more angry, suspicious, resentful and selfish country.

Absolutely pathetic ! Posts like this typify the attitude of the socialist who have no grip on reality and are so naive it's beyond a laughing mater.

 

[Hobbit]

It may be complicit in what has happened by not bowing and scraping to the mighty and self-important UK and not giving Cameron 'enough' - it is not complicit in any way with what the government is saying in respect of the future status and 'monitoring' of the UK immigrant community. The situation is completely of our own making - we did not have to have the referendum and we did not haver to vote to Leave. Simples.

Unless I'm much mistaken the MAJORITY voted out. Simpes.

And now you're railing against the govt for attempting to negotiate the best it can on the back of that MAJORITY vote.

*rubs chin and ponders who it is that sounds pathetic...

 

[chrisd]

Unless I'm much mistaken the MAJORITY voted out. Simpes.

And now you're railing against the govt for attempting to negotiate the best it can on the back of that MAJORITY vote.

*rubs chin and ponders who it is that sounds pathetic...

Look Brian, there's really no need to let the facts get in the way ............. Sorry, yes there is. :thup:

 

[the smiling assassin]

Absolutely pathetic ! Posts like this typify the attitude of the socialist who have no grip on reality and are so naive it's beyond a laughing mater.

If you say so... I mean your retorts are approaching Trump levels of deplorable, so that must make you very proud of yourself...

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm certainly no fan of the government. I hate that the tories have brought about a situation where we are using people as bargaining chips. However I have to agree it makes no sense the guarantee Eu citizens can remain here without the same agreement for U.K. Nationals on the continent. However if they try to get more than a simple like for like deal with this "bargaining chip" they would be deplorable.

On a wider issue, we are gradually becoming aware of the implications of brexit. Most immediately the collapse in the value of the pound and the resultant increase in costs. Tourists at airports are getting less than a Euro to the pound, fuel costs are about to be hiked and this is only the beginning.

Brexit is an out of control car racing downhill and the tories have decided to ride it to the conclusion regardless of how much damage it does to the country economically, culturally or to our international reputation.

 

[ColchesterFC]

It may be complicit in what has happened by not bowing and scraping to the mighty and self-important UK and not giving Cameron 'enough' - it is not complicit in any way with what the government is saying in respect of the future status and 'monitoring' of the UK immigrant community. The situation is completely of our own making - we did not have to have the referendum and we did not haver to vote to Leave. Simples.

Complicit by being so completely arrogant that they thought that no one would ever vote to leave the EU because it's so wonderful. In my opinion the vote would probably have gone the way of Remain if the EU had been willing to give Cameron something so he could say negotiations had been successful. The whole "better to be in the EU and change it from within" argument fell apart due to the fact they weren't willing to make any concessions to try to prevent a country leaving. Why would they have changed if we had voted to remain? And now a country has voted to leave they have been panicked into trying to appease growing anti EU sentiment in other countries.

 

[chrisd]

Complicit by being so completely arrogant that they thought that no one would ever vote to leave the EU because it's so wonderful. In my opinion the vote would probably have gone the way of Remain if the EU had been willing to give Cameron something so he could say negotiations had been successful. The whole "better to be in the EU and change it from within" argument fell apart due to the fact they weren't willing to make any concessions to try to prevent a country leaving. Why would they have changed if we had voted to remain? And now a country has voted to leave they have been panicked into trying to appease growing anti EU sentiment in other countries.

I absolutely agree and doubt that we will be the only country to make this decision over the next few years. What about the shortfall from our lost contribution that the other nett contributors will have to supplement, and that will worsen more when other new countries join who will take out billions