Brexit Two Months On

[Deleted member 18588]

You are starting to get picky now.

Perhaps if England and Wales had followed Scotland's lead they may have come top.
However.......they would have had to have made savings elsewhere to afford that route.

Or anticipated the same favourable treatment under the Barnett Formula.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Or anticipated the same favourable treatment under the Barnett Formula.

Please explain the Barnett formula,.
As you are quoting it I assume you understand it ?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Please explain the Barnett formula,.
As you are quoting it I assume you understand it ?

Yes and I also see through the SNP's efforts to discredit it as a measure since it does not suit their argument.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Yes and I also see through the SNP's efforts to discredit it as a measure since it does not suit their argument.

Please explain both then ?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Please explain both then ?

Even you must realise that a forum such as this is not the place for that but I am sure that if you undertake a little research you will be able to find the information you require.

If not please contact SNP HQ as they are again hoping to take advantage of its generosity.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You are the one quoting it so I assumed you had some knowledge.
I have tried to understand it but it is beyond my ken. [and many others I think]

The fact that it was introduced by a Tory Scottish Minister to garner praise from Margaret Thatcher makes me think that it is no friend of Scotland.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You are the one quoting it so I assumed you had some knowledge.
I have tried to understand it but it is beyond my ken. [and many others I think]

The fact that it was introduced by a Tory Scottish Minister to garner praise from Margaret Thatcher makes me think that it is no friend of Scotland.

Clearly!

Joel Barnett was Treasury Secretary in the Callaghan (Labour) Government.

 

[Hobbit]

No, but still the best :lol:

Hardly surprising. Wide open spaces, more spent per head on education and healthcare (by a spendthrift SNP).

 

[Hobbit]

Clearly!

Joel Barnett was Treasury Secretary in the Callaghan (Labour) Government.

And in recent times has said it's past it's sell by date.

 

[jp5]

Quite the watch / listen.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sure VW will be happy losing £9 BILLION in car sales

So a 10% (let's say) import tariff our government puts on imports from Germany increases the cost of a new VW golf from £18,600 to £20,460. Would that stop you buying one?

I wonder how much the monthly payment for buying one over four years finance would go up. For simplicity I'll assume import tax adds £2000 increment over 50months - that's £40/month. I know it doesn't work this way but maybe add 25% interest over the period so that's £500 interest - and that's £10/month. Makes our import tariff delta equivalent to £50/month. Will that stop you buying a new VW?

And besides - will we all be driving UK built cars as these could be the only ones not having an import tax applied?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Quite the watch / listen.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

...and basically all those who called in to explain to James O'B why they voted to Leave were like this - though this fella was one of the 'best'. At times it was almost funny - if it wasn't for the fact that Ashley, and many folk with just as much grasp of the Brexit issues and impact on leaving, were those who have got us out of the EU into the mess we are in. Thanks Ashley - hope the business goes well.

 

[Hobbit]

So a 10% (let's say) import tariff our government puts on imports from Germany increases the cost of a new VW golf from £18,600 to £20,460. Would that stop you buying one?

I wonder how much the monthly payment for buying one over four years finance would go up. For simplicity I'll assume import tax adds £2000 increment over 50months - that's £40/month. I know it doesn't work this way but maybe add 25% interest over the period so that's £500 interest - and that's £10/month. Makes our import tariff delta equivalent to £50/month. Will that stop you buying a new VW?

And besides - will we all be driving UK built cars as these could be the only ones not having an import tax applied?

So, basically, you've created an imaginary scenario that supports your argument.

Here's a scenario based on fact. German businesses have been lobbying their government, asking for a free trade agreement with the U.K.

As to would I stick with VW or would I switch brands? If everyone went for the cheapest car now no one would be driving VW anyway. We would all be driving a Kia. People will pay a fair price whatever that price is. If they perceive that VW provide value for money they will continue to buy VW.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So, basically, you've created an imaginary scenario that supports your argument.

Here's a scenario based on fact. German businesses have been lobbying their government, asking for a free trade agreement with the U.K.

As to would I stick with VW or would I switch brands? If everyone went for the cheapest car now no one would be driving VW anyway. We would all be driving a Kia. People will pay a fair price whatever that price is. If they perceive that VW provide value for money they will continue to buy VW.

And this is all I am saying by estimating the impact on car prices if 10% tariff is applied to German car imports.

A lot is made of Germany not imposing tariffs with us because they wouldn't want us to impose tariffs on their cars - because look at the business the car industry in Germany would lose - but in practice I don't think they'd lose very much business at all (if any). So are the Germans going to be really that worried about a drop in car exports to the UK? I don't think so. This is put up as a significant bargaining chip we have with the Germans - I doubt it is that useful a chip.

Your general point is what some German businesses are saying - fair enough - but I don't know if their car industry is part of that.

The £18,600 is the current price of a new entry level VW Golf SV

 

[Foxholer]

Possibly why I'm so out of step with many posters here, a federal Europe sounds like a great concept to me. Surely must be the way to go in the long term or are we all too bound by petty nationalism?

Federalism CAN work well! USA, Canada and Australia are examples - with a single language 'uniting' them. Germany is too, but is a relatively young federation! Malaysia and India are federations with multiple languages.

Europe does seem to have too many diverse cultures, languages and other 'national identity' traits to ever be a 'real' federation (imo), but there are obvious advantages to moving some way in that direction - Standards, Customs (Single Market) and Visa/Passport processing being obvious ones.

I don't believe there'll ever be a 'United States of Europe'! However, some of the ideas of those running the EU - for example an EU Army and the EU's own Human Rights Charter - seem to be steps too far towards central 'control'!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Federalism CAN work well! USA, Canada and Australia are examples - with a single language 'uniting' them. Germany is too, but is a relatively young federation! Malaysia and India are federations with multiple languages.

Europe does seem to have too many diverse cultures, languages and other 'national identity' traits to ever be a 'real' federation (imo), but there are obvious advantages to moving some way in that direction - Standards, Customs (Single Market) and Visa/Passport processing being obvious ones.

I don't believe there'll ever be a 'United States of Europe'! However, some of the ideas of those running the EU - for example an EU Army and the EU's own Human Rights Charter - seem to be steps too far towards central 'control'!

Absolutely sums up my position on the issue.

Fair, common trading and ease of movement between nation states, but much beyond that is going too far.

 

[MarkE]

No - not tosh and not naïve MarkE - callous - as it appears that you are happy to be described.

The EU never wanted this. You cannot blame the EU for any of this. It is all of our own making. The EU nationals resident in the UK are here legally and most are fully integrated into society as friends, colleagues, lovers, classmates, husbands and wives. Our political bargaining with the EU should go nowhere near bartering in people - that should be unconscionable for our society and it is frankly disgusting that some think it OK.

No, i'm not happy to be described as callous. I did'nt say I agree with the use of people as bargaining chips, just that it's a fact of political life and getting precious about it won't stop it. In your utopian world there would'nt be any need for actions like that from those in charge, nor wars or terrorism, but in real life these things do happen. I'm as outraged as the next man, but that won't change anything.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Anyone listen to John Redwood on Newsnight last night - being interviewed by the inestimable Kirsty Wark. Hmmm.

Apparently we won't need to even consider that we might have to pay into the EU for access to single market or give anything of significance in any deal - as the EU will be so keen to trade with us that we will be able to define the terms of any agreement and the EU will grab it with both hands.

As far as EU financial services passports and EU customs union? What's the problem - we don't need them - we are UK. Now that would be nice.

I found his complacency rather worrying. Brilliant if he is right

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No, i'm not happy to be described as callous. I did'nt say I agree with the use of people as bargaining chips, just that it's a fact of political life and getting precious about it won't stop it. In your utopian world there would'nt be any need for actions like that from those in charge, nor wars or terrorism, but in real life these things do happen. I'm as outraged as the next man, but that won't change anything.

It's NOT a utopian world - it's a world of fairness and compassion around peoples lives when we - the UK - do not need to throw these lives into chaos. There is no imperative or actual need to ask EU citizens legally in the UK to go, they are already here - they are part of us now.

If it's such a great bargaining chip what do you suggest the UK does if (in the very unlikely event) the EU calls our bluff and ask UK citizens resident in the EU to leave, what do you think the UK should do. A bargaining chip isn't worth a zlotty if it can be ignored as having no benefit, drawback or consequence.

 

[Hobbit]

And this is all I am saying by estimating the impact on car prices if 10% tariff is applied to German car imports.

A lot is made of Germany not imposing tariffs with us because they wouldn't want us to impose tariffs on their cars - because look at the business the car industry in Germany would lose - but in practice I don't think they'd lose very much business at all (if any). So are the Germans going to be really that worried about a drop in car exports to the UK? I don't think so. This is put up as a significant bargaining chip we have with the Germans - I doubt it is that useful a chip.

Your general point is what some German businesses are saying - fair enough - but I don't know if their car industry is part of that.

The £18,600 is the current price of a new entry level VW Golf SV

"I don't think so" means you're guessing.

"I don't know if their car industry is part of it" means you're guessing again.

VAG = Volkswagen Audi Group is one of the companies that is lobbying its government. And that's not guessing.

Will the EU impose tariffs? I don't know and neither do you.

Will we have to pay an "access fee" to trade? I don't know, but the USA doesn't... Will we, won't we? I don't know and neither do you... that's what the negotiations will decide.

We know what might happen, and we hear plenty of doom and gloom from the Remain camp(still).

Why is the pound falling as far as it is? Someone is selling short. Is it currency speculators or is it the EU teaching the UK a lesson