Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Deleted member 21784]

[/QUOTE]

Where can a 15 year old get a full time job and pay taxes? They have to be in education

At 16 they can be apprentices full time..

 

[Hobbit]

Agree to an extent .
But it looks like parties are trying to use them to up their vote in the GE coming up.
They could have done this years ago but havnt.
Why the rush?
But do agree it needs sorting in the future.

You hit on a very valid point. Some parties/politicians are using this for their own ends. If this had come up mid-term, fine, but bringing up now is purely for self-serving cynical reasons. Long term there may well be some validity to it, and lets have proper scrutiny over it but now isn't the time.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Then the same rules apply to 15 year olds. Where does it stop?

Same rules apply to 15 year olds ?!

which rules ?

You can’t do anything I mentioned as a 15 year so why are using that age ?

 

[Jamesbrown]

Perhaps you are a bit thicker than the current generation of youngsters?

Perhaps, probably or maybe I was too busy gambling, drinking and watching porn!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Just being a little facetious, I should have been able to vote from 12. Two paper rounds...

Don't worry, if Jeremy loses, he'll propose it.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

]

Perhaps, probably or maybe I was too busy gambling, drinking and watching porn!

Like a lot of 16-18 year olds don't do that anyways..

Can do the lottery

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You hit on a very valid point. Some parties/politicians are using this for their own ends. If this had come up mid-term, fine, but bringing up now is purely for self-serving cynical reasons. Long term there may well be some validity to it, and lets have proper scrutiny over it but now isn't the time.

Agree that now isn’t the right time - I’m not bothered about which way they would vote but only that they should be able to have a say - and certainly agree that some are using it to make a political point and for self serving

 

[Wolf]

Maybe the compromise is your tax code then.
Anybody paying into the treasury coffers should have the right to vote
What age would be the starting point as you could have a 10yr old child model paying tax.

My only concern is some 16 yr olds are very savvy some just idiots.
But that can also go for all ages.

It's not often LP and I agree but I'm with him on this point. Even though people still get classed as not being old enough for operational duties, they're still trained to the same level as those 2 years older, still taught how to use a weapon, in cases of trades they're given the same training and earning the same money as the guy a year or 2 older, yet we are to say they're not old enough or capable of voting.

Then the same rules apply to 15 year olds. Where does it stop?

No they don't apply to a 15 year old because they're not old enough to be employed full time or do any of the above. At 16 someone is legally old enough to become a parent in the UK yet can't put a tick in a box for a political party.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Like a lot of 16-18 year olds don't do that anyways..

Which is why the age to vote should be raised not lowered! You need to have lived and experienced the world ,it’s inadequacies, the inequality, the issues and changes that affected you to make a decision and that will shape your future.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which is why the age to vote should be raised not lowered! You need to have lived and experienced the world it’s inadequacies, the inequality, the issues that affected you to make a decision that will shape your future.

So when should they start being allowed because there are no doubt people in the 20’s 30’s 40’s etc who also don’t have a clue and prob don’t care as well - and then should there be an age when it’s stopped ? Should people in their 60’s or 70’s stop being allowed to vote because it’s no longer their future

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Which is why the age to vote should be raised not lowered! You need to have lived and experienced the world ,it’s inadequacies, the inequality, the issues and changes that affected you to make a decision and that will shape your future.

Oh because so many 18 year olds have .........

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You hit on a very valid point. Some parties/politicians are using this for their own ends. If this had come up mid-term, fine, but bringing up now is purely for self-serving cynical reasons. Long term there may well be some validity to it, and lets have proper scrutiny over it but now isn't the time.

And for the same reasons, someone will propose EU citizens living here are eligible.
And Phil will argue, "yes, if they pay taxes......etc.

Country's going mad.

 

[Old Skier]

Same rules apply to 15 year olds ?!

which rules ?

You can’t do anything I mentioned as a 15 year so why are using that age ?

Because 15 year olds can join the armed forces as juniors.

 

[Old Skier]

It's not often LP and I agree but I'm with him on this point. Even though people still get classed as not being old enough for operational duties, they're still trained to the same level as those 2 years older, still taught how to use a weapon, in cases of trades they're given the same training and earning the same money as the guy a year or 2 older, yet we are to say they're not old enough or capable of voting.



No they don't apply to a 15 year old because they're not old enough to be employed full time or do any of the above. At 16 someone is legally old enough to become a parent in the UK yet can't put a tick in a box for a political party.

15 year olds can earn as I have pointed out to LP

 

[Wolf]

15 year olds can earn as I have pointed out to LP

But still have to be in full time education, those in the forces do not have to be so therefore are treated in every respect as an adult. Major difference that...

 

[Old Skier]

It's not often LP and I agree but I'm with him on this point. Even though people still get classed as not being old enough for operational duties, they're still trained to the same level as those 2 years older, still taught how to use a weapon, in cases of trades they're given the same training and earning the same money as the guy a year or 2 older, yet we are to say they're not old enough or capable of voting.



No they don't apply to a 15 year old because they're not old enough to be employed full time or do any of the above. At 16 someone is legally old enough to become a parent in the UK yet can't put a tick in a box for a political party.

My apologies to both LP and you, you can start the application process at 15.

 

[Hobbit]

So when should they start being allowed because there are no doubt people in the 20’s 30’s 40’s etc who also don’t have a clue and prob don’t care as well - and then should there be an age when it’s stopped ? Should people in their 60’s or 70’s stop being allowed to vote because it’s no longer their future

It could be argued that history shows that it is when that particular group agitate for it. Each time the franchise has been extended to a particular group, down through the centuries, its been on the back of demands by those groups.

Who is demanding it for 16/17 year olds? It is people with a vested interest in them getting the vote. Who is supporting those demands? People suckered by those calling out for it? Lets have a proper scrutinised debate during the next parliament but lets not fall for a sucker punch being delivered by someone whose only interest is where that vote will go, not is it right for them to have it. If those people had felt strongly about it before it would have been before parliament before now.

 

[Fade and Die]

Deputy speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle will probably not allow these amendments for younger voters and EU citizens for two reasons.
1-he is after the role of speaker when Bercow goes and will probably want to curry favour with the government and
2- The electoral commission rules state that any major changes to who should be allowed to vote should be at least 6 months before an election.

 

[Old Skier]

It appears that only Austria in the EU has a lower age than 18 for voting - source, current HOC debat. The argument for lowering the age appears to come from those who wish to remain.

 

[woody69]

In Scotland, they allowed 16-17 year olds the vote in the independence referendum, for the explicit reason that the vote was about the[ir] future.

I don't think changing the voting age 5 weeks before an election is a good idea. Voter registration would be chaos. And probably regionally inconsistent, due to all manner of attempted abuses.

Being politically engaged is not a prerequisite for being permitted to vote. Being a citizen or a taxpayer is all that should be required.

First men without land couldn't vote, but they were allowed to in the end and the sky didn't fall down.
Then women were allowed to vote in the end and the sky didn't fall down.
And if informed, enlightened and engaged teenagers would be allowed to vote THE SKY WON'T COME CRUMBLING DOWN.