Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Jamesbrown]

Why is it laughable? This age group will have to live with the decision of any vote for longer than other age groups

A lot of people left school at 16 straight to work but get no say on the world?

What makes 18yos that much more mature than 16yos to make decisions ?

They can’t smoke, they can’t gamble, can’t drink, treated as a minor in the eyes of the law, can’t drive.
Their life experience is nil, easily manipulated and led, can’t write a will, cant watch porn, can’t buy a house.

Another remainer unicorn belief that the young are pro EU. They’ll vote what their parents vote for, right after they’ve had their waffles and turkey dinosaurs. I don’t think I knew what the EU was till 2014/15, how will they? What 16 year old switches on the news after school?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If someone is allowed to join the forces at 16 then I see no reason why they can’t vote at 16 - it’s also their future and there is no reason why they can’t have a say in that future

 

[Jamesbrown]

If someone is allowed to join the forces at 16 then I see no reason why they can’t vote at 16 - it’s also their future and there is no reason why they can’t have a say in that future

Can’t join without parental consent...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can’t join without parental consent...

They can still join though , they can gain full time employment , pay tax , pay NI , contribute to the society, get married - they can go on operations with the military - why shouldn’t a 16 year old be allowed to Vote - what happens between 16 and 18 that suddenly makes them ok to vote

 

[Hobbit]

If someone is allowed to join the forces at 16 then I see no reason why they can’t vote at 16 - it’s also their future and there is no reason why they can’t have a say in that future

I kind of agree but would pose a question; if MP's didn't want to rush Boris' Brexit Bill through in 3 days would it be right to give 16/17 year olds the vote without giving it proper scrutiny first?

There has to be a cut-off for age as its fairly obvious you wouldn't want a bunch of 5 year olds voting but when? Should it be 16, 17 or as it is? Don't forget, the decision to make it 18 was done so with proper scrutiny... have things changed that much?

As for if they've joined the Forces argument. The UK has been heavily criticised by the UN for allowing minors to join, and is the only country in Europe to allow 16 yr olds to join, one of only 20 in the world. And 16/17 yr olds can't serve on the frontline. They're still legally minors.

 

[clubchamp98]

More importantly they can pay taxes at 16, but can't vote on how they would like those taxes spent. Bizarre!

I have never met a 16 yr old and had a conversation about politics with them.
Seen three juniors today having lunch so I asked them.
Two said they were “not arsed” one said “can’t be bothered unless I can vote on my phone”

I am sure there are many clued up and can’t see why if they want to vote ,,,just let them.
They are the future after all.

 

[Wolf]

If someone is allowed to join the forces at 16 then I see no reason why they can’t vote at 16 - it’s also their future and there is no reason why they can’t have a say in that future

In part you're right but at 16 can only be classed a boy/girl soldier, can only join with parental consent and can't go on active service until 18years old as still classed as minors.

I get your point though if you're old to earn etc should be able to vote how your earnings should be spent. Plus the current education system is that everyone has to stay in some form of education until 18, so I guess one big get out would be they're still of school age so therefore can't vote.

 

[Hobbit]

In part you're right but at 16 can only be classed a boy/girl soldier, can only join with parental consent and can't go on active service until 18years old as still classed as minors.

I get your point though if you're old to earn etc should be able to vote how your earnings should be spent. Plus the current education system is that everyone has to stay in some form of education until 18, so I guess one big get out would be they're still of school age so therefore can't vote.

Just being a little facetious, I should have been able to vote from 12. Two paper rounds...

 

[spongebob59]

@bbclaurak
·
23m

Likely to be a big row about letting EU citizens vote, which might even scupper election vote tonight - worth knowing there are no other EU countries that give all EU citizens right to vote in general elections (exceptions for some Commonwealth citizens and Irish nationals)

 

[clubchamp98]

In part you're right but at 16 can only be classed a boy/girl soldier, can only join with parental consent and can't go on active service until 18years old as still classed as minors.

I get your point though if you're old to earn etc should be able to vote how your earnings should be spent. Plus the current education system is that everyone has to stay in some form of education until 18, so I guess one big get out would be they're still of school age so therefore can't vote.

Maybe the compromise is your tax code then.
Anybody paying into the treasury coffers should have the right to vote
What age would be the starting point as you could have a 10yr old child model paying tax.

My only concern is some 16 yr olds are very savvy some just idiots.
But that can also go for all ages.

 

[Jamesbrown]

They can still join though , they can gain full time employment , pay tax , pay NI , contribute to the society, get married - they can go on operations with the military - why shouldn’t a 16 year old be allowed to Vote - what happens between 16 and 18 that suddenly makes them ok to vote

We’d need to not class them as minors. Recognise they are adults, and in the eyes of the law for them to have a say and allow them to do the things we can legally do without consent.

Can’t just give them the vote on a whim that it will swing a vote the opposite way.
They’ll have their time two years later, or when they are legally classed as an adult.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just being a little facetious, I should have been able to vote from 12. Two paper rounds...

Cash in hand ?
No vote.
Paying tax ???

 

[Old Skier]

They can still join though , they can gain full time employment , pay tax , pay NI , contribute to the society, get married - they can go on operations with the military - why shouldn’t a 16 year old be allowed to Vote - what happens between 16 and 18 that suddenly makes them ok to vote

They cannot go into operational areas of armed conflict. During boys/junior service they can also hand in their notice easier than an adult serving member .

Why not lower it further, 15 year old can join juniors. Where do you stop.

 

[clubchamp98]

If we give them the vote and class them as adults will they pay full fees at golf clubs?
Will their names be disclosed on the news when they appear in court.?

It’s 18 for a reason.
But do think some are capable of reasoned debate some not.
But would put money on most can’t be bothered.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They cannot go into operational areas of armed conflict. During boys/junior service they can also hand in their notice easier than an adult serving member .

Why not lower it further, 15 year old can join juniors. Where do you stop.

They can still join the forces - they can be trained they can do their role , they get full pay for their age , they pay taxes , they are treated as adults

On top of that

They can marry
Apply for a passport on their own
Change their name
Join a trade union
Get a NI number
Leave home
Consent to medical treatment

but for me the key thing is

They can get full time employment and pay tax -
So they should have the same rights as overs that pay taxes and have their say where those taxes go

Why would people be against 16years being allowed to vote ?

We’d need to not class them as minors. Recognise they are adults, and in the eyes of the law for them to have a say and allow them to do the things we can legally do without consent.

Why do we need to do that for them to vote - should we then allow them to have wages for full time employment without tax ? Why are they treated as adults in one area but not another

Can’t just give them the vote on a whim that it will swing a vote the opposite way.
They’ll have their time two years later, or when they are legally classed as an adult.

on a whim ? Who says it’s a whim when it’s been discussed many times over the years ? It’s not a new thing that reared it’s ugly head and it didn’t seem to do any harm to Scotland when they allowed 16year old to vote in the Indy Ref ?

And not sure what “swing” the vote ? Do we know how they will vote - but to counter that - are you afraid that they their vote will push to a result that you don’t want

 

[Deleted member 1147]

They can’t smoke, they can’t gamble, can’t drink, treated as a minor in the eyes of the law, can’t drive.
Their life experience is nil, easily manipulated and led, can’t write a will, cant watch porn, can’t buy a house.

... I don’t think I knew what the EU was till 2014/15, how will they? What 16 year old switches on the news after school?

Perhaps you are a bit thicker than the current generation of youngsters?

 

[clubchamp98]

They can still join the forces - they can be trained they can do their role , they get full pay for their age , they pay taxes , they are treated as adults

On top of that

They can marry
Apply for a passport on their own
Change their name
Join a trade union
Get a NI number
Leave home
Consent to medical treatment

but for me the key thing is

They can get full time employment and pay tax -
So they should have the same rights as overs that pay taxes and have their say where those taxes go

Why would people be against 16years being allowed to vote ?

Agree to an extent .
But it looks like parties are trying to use them to up their vote in the GE coming up.
They could have done this years ago but havnt.
Why the rush?
But do agree it needs sorting in the future.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

They can’t smoke, they can’t gamble, can’t drink, treated as a minor in the eyes of the law, can’t drive.
Their life experience is nil, easily manipulated and led, can’t write a will, cant watch porn, can’t buy a house.

Another remainer unicorn belief that the young are pro EU. They’ll vote what their parents vote for, right after they’ve had their waffles and turkey dinosaurs. I don’t think I knew what the EU was till 2014/15, how will they? What 16 year old switches on the news after school?

Gambling drinking and smoking? 3 great decisions right there.. no issue every come from them ofc.. can't watch porn? But can have sex.. have kids . Pay taxes... As Phil points out can join the forces

We learnt about the EU in school from the age of 15 in economics so I'm sure they know more than people who never would have studied it for example

Can drive at 17 so that's not 18

Can't buy a house but can pay rent on one?

 

[Old Skier]

They can still join the forces - they can be trained they can do their role , they get full pay for their age , they pay taxes , they are treated as adults

On top of that

They can marry
Apply for a passport on their own
Change their name
Join a trade union
Get a NI number
Leave home
Consent to medical treatment

but for me the key thing is

They can get full time employment and pay tax -
So they should have the same rights as overs that pay taxes and have their say where those taxes go

Why would people be against 16years being allowed to

Then the same rules apply to 15 year olds. Where does it stop?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

If we give them the vote and class them as adults will they pay full fees at golf clubs?
Will their names be disclosed on the news when they appear in court.?

It’s 18 for a reason.
But do think some are capable of reasoned debate some not.
But would put money on most can’t be bothered.

Sorry but some clubs due reduced fees for 18-35 year olds ...

I could go a membership tomorrow (32) and pay less than others

Can say that of all ages

Youth prison is for 18-20 year olds aswell so not everything is the magic 18