Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[drdel]

Indeed. Something like 54% with non EU countries versus 46% with the EU.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom

Lots to do, considering the UK will have to rearrange a large proportion of those trade deals which currently exist through our EU membership, it may be difficult to secure as good a deal based on the size of our market shrinking from 450 million people to about 65 million. Still, fingers crossed.

It might be worth noting that there's no growth in the EU at present.

 

[SocketRocket]

eh ?

Yes i think the nation will be further split when we leave the UK

The vote was right down the middle and in the last three years there has been nothing but insults and derogatory comments going both ways


I asked can anyone see the split be fixed - you said yes when we leave the EU - that satisfies half the country , the half wont go away - the split will be there

This whole complete mess of a referendum from day one has been the most divisive action that i have seen in my lifetime and its caused damage that wont be repaired in my lifetime.

And if when we do leave on whatever hash of a deal they make and it goes horribly wrong - i cant comprehend whats going to happen

Either:
1) You dont get how a vote works
2) You know but cant accept it

Also are you:
1) So gullible you believe everything after leaving the EU will be disasterous/catestrophic ?
2) So naive you can't see that today's newspaper is tomorrows chip paper?
3) Not able to tell the difference between what some golfers post on a forum and armageddon?

 

[Fade and Die]

Either:
1) You dont get how a vote works
2) You know but cant accept it

Also are you:
1) So gullible you believe everything after leaving the EU will be disasterous/catestrophic ?
2) So naive you can't see that today's newspaper is tomorrows chip paper?
3) Not able to tell the difference between what some golfers post on a forum and armageddon?

You forgot option 4) All of the above.

 

[Hobbit]

They are a good example of how to run a referendum though.

Mmm, not sure either way on that one. They operate a hybrid direct/representative democracy on a national level covering a number of areas of state law. For example, they had 10 referendums last year. Would you really want to vote for farm subsidies for farmers who don't dehorn their livestock? What a waste of money.

I sort of like they way they do it, especially as the UK's own Parliament could do with a revamp, but would I want to vote on a federal gambling Act or a cycle pathway initiative? And what a waste of money having all those referendums.

 

[SocketRocket]

Indeed. Something like 54% with non EU countries versus 46% with the EU.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom

Lots to do, considering the UK will have to rearrange a large proportion of those trade deals which currently exist through our EU membership, it may be difficult to secure as good a deal based on the size of our market shrinking from 450 million people to about 65 million. Still, fingers crossed.

Tell that to people in New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Canada, Japan etc. Many of the EUs trade deals are with small trading countries. We can do better as we would be unfettered from their bureaucracy which moves at the pace pf a snail.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Either:
1) You dont get how a vote works -
2) You know but cant accept it

Also are you:
1) So gullible you believe everything after leaving the EU will be disasterous/catestrophic ?
2) So naive you can't see that today's newspaper is tomorrows chip paper?
3) Not able to tell the difference between what some golfers post on a forum and armageddon?

Im not sure exactly what point that reply is addressing

I guess you must have your head so far firmly up your own arse you cant see outside your own bubble - if you think that beyond a golf forum everything is all lovely then i pity you , you only have to look at many other areas of social media , in the national news to see this little thread is mirrored all over society - split down the middle, maybe its your arrogance that fails to see it or i suspect the main reason is you dont care beyond yourself and you especially on here are one of the main causes of all the angst and insults

 

[Hobbit]

Im not sure exactly what point that reply is addressing

I guess you must have your head so far firmly up your own arse you cant see outside your own bubble - if you think that beyond a golf forum everything is all lovely then i pity you , you only have to look at many other areas of social media , in the national news to see this little thread is mirrored all over society - split down the middle, maybe its your arrogance that fails to see it or i suspect the main reason is you dont care beyond yourself and you especially on here are one of the main causes of all the angst and insults

I get where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to diminish your point but whether the UK stays or goes do you think staying will stop knife crime or social injustice? I suppose what I'm clumsily trying to point out is the vast majority of the ills in the UK are fare worse and far more destructive on a local level, and has virtually nothing to do with Brexit.

 

[SocketRocket]

Im not sure exactly what point that reply is addressing

I guess you must have your head so far firmly up your own arse you cant see outside your own bubble - if you think that beyond a golf forum everything is all lovely then i pity you , you only have to look at many other areas of social media , in the national news to see this little thread is mirrored all over society - split down the middle, maybe its your arrogance that fails to see it or i suspect the main reason is you dont care beyond yourself and you especially on here are one of the main causes of all the angst and insults

Il'l repair six pitch marks and replace three divots in recompense for challenging your predictions of fire and brimstone on us all.

PS. Didn't know there was a bubble up my arse

 

[robinthehood]

I get where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to diminish your point but whether the UK stays or goes do you think staying will stop knife crime or social injustice? I suppose what I'm clumsily trying to point out is the vast majority of the ills in the UK are fare worse and far more destructive on a local level, and has virtually nothing to do with Brexit.

No it won't, but We've wasted 3 years chasing some ridiculous intangible dream ,when we could have been making those things the priority they should be.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I get where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to diminish your point but whether the UK stays or goes do you think staying will stop knife crime or social injustice? I suppose what I'm clumsily trying to point out is the vast majority of the ills in the UK are fare worse and far more destructive on a local level, and has virtually nothing to do with Brexit.

Trust me I understand that there are many issues within the UK that need to be dealt with - and for me a lot of those issues are down to the governments over the past 20 years - from bankrupting the country , to allowing people to earn more on benefits , to increasing the huge debt , to austerity measures which have ripped apart the social services including crucial policing.

Labour then Tory have imo have a lot to answer for - Brexit is the cherry on top - the water being poured down the cracks to open them up more. I dread to think what the future will be like

 

[ScienceBoy]

The uncertainty wouldn't be there if MPs had accepted the referendum outcome.

That’s what I said right?

 

[Hobbit]

Trust me I understand that there are many issues within the UK that need to be dealt with - and for me a lot of those issues are down to the governments over the past 20 years - from bankrupting the country , to allowing people to earn more on benefits , to increasing the huge debt , to austerity measures which have ripped apart the social services including crucial policing.

Labour then Tory have imo have a lot to answer for - Brexit is the cherry on top - the water being poured down the cracks to open them up more. I dread to think what the future will be like

Just a rhetorical question for you to ponder; what if Brexit actually improves things? The govt of the day, Lab/Tory/whatever won't need EU approval for subsidies or be limited in their trade deals or tariffs. Not saying you're wrong but, equally, not saying you're right either. Maybe a fundamental change is needed, and maybe Brexit is it...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just a rhetorical question for you to ponder; what if Brexit actually improves things? The govt of the day, Lab/Tory/whatever won't need EU approval for subsidies or be limited in their trade deals or tariffs. Not saying you're wrong but, equally, not saying you're right either. Maybe a fundamental change is needed, and maybe Brexit is it...

If it does then I hope we all see the benefit of it and I hope that it’s all done with grace.
Maybe a big change was needed - the issue for me is that the big change is being looked after by people whose sole aim seems to be self preservation and a lack of caring of the effects it’s having for the country.

right now I see the rich getting richer , and everyone else being shafted

 

[SocketRocket]

No it won't, but We've wasted 3 years chasing some ridiculous intangible dream ,when we could have been making those things the priority they should be.

If people would have kept their promise and accepted the peoples vote it would have been all over and we could have made those priorities.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

PS. Didn't know there was a bubble up my arse

I'd speak to the doctor. Might be infectious

 

[drdel]

Just a rhetorical question for you to ponder; what if Brexit actually improves things? The govt of the day, Lab/Tory/whatever won't need EU approval for subsidies or be limited in their trade deals or tariffs. Not saying you're wrong but, equally, not saying you're right either. Maybe a fundamental change is needed, and maybe Brexit is it...

Bang on. The EU has become insular. It's lack of growth and the better opportunities in the new economies means investors etc are not going to beat a path to their door. All the EU is fixated with is redistributing wealth of western members to the south and east, a race to the bottom as many in Germany are beginning to realise.

 

[Hobbit]

If it does then I hope we all see the benefit of it and I hope that it’s all done with grace.
Maybe a big change was needed - the issue for me is that the big change is being looked after by people whose sole aim seems to be self preservation and a lack of caring of the effects it’s having for the country.

right now I see the rich getting richer , and everyone else being shafted

And that's where the ballot box comes in. The man in the street has very little power, individually, but there's enough failed politicians been cast adrift in the wilderness to show that if a political party gets it drastically wrong many of them lose their job. Not all but some, and the same applies to businessmen too. Jeffrey Archer, Neil Hamilton to name just 2. And sometimes its just the label of failure that crucifies them. Tony Blair hasn't taken to the wilderness at all well and still chases centre stage. He'll never lose his wealth but can you name another politician so detested long after they're out of office.

As for society as a whole; it won't change much either way. A new broom might address some of the lawlessness on the streets or some of the issues in the NHS. And they are hamstrung in having to do that, or they won't get elected/re-elected. Armageddon isn't just around the corner.

 

[woody69]

Mmm, not sure either way on that one. They operate a hybrid direct/representative democracy on a national level covering a number of areas of state law. For example, they had 10 referendums last year. Would you really want to vote for farm subsidies for farmers who don't dehorn their livestock? What a waste of money.

I sort of like they way they do it, especially as the UK's own Parliament could do with a revamp, but would I want to vote on a federal gambling Act or a cycle pathway initiative? And what a waste of money having all those referendums.

No, I'm not suggesting we copy their model, just stating in terms of how a referendum should be run properly. It's a moot point and more akin to closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, but that was all I was trying to say.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'd speak to the doctor. Might be infectious

Anus horribilous.

 

[clubchamp98]

And that's where the ballot box comes in. The man in the street has very little power, individually, but there's enough failed politicians been cast adrift in the wilderness to show that if a political party gets it drastically wrong many of them lose their job. Not all but some, and the same applies to businessmen too. Jeffrey Archer, Neil Hamilton to name just 2. And sometimes its just the label of failure that crucifies them. Tony Blair hasn't taken to the wilderness at all well and still chases centre stage. He'll never lose his wealth but can you name another politician so detested long after they're out of office.

As for society as a whole; it won't change much either way. A new broom might address some of the lawlessness on the streets or some of the issues in the NHS. And they are hamstrung in having to do that, or they won't get elected/re-elected. Armageddon isn't just around the corner.

But if MPs don’t do what we voted for in the ref the people will lose faith in the system.
That’s very worrying.