SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Because he had his chance and blew it. Why does he think he is so precious that he needs a 1-2-1.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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I'm surprised David Davis stayed in post as long as he did. I think her version of control, creating a Brexit team led by herself and Olly Robbins, excluding the Dexu team was appalling.
As much as I think she's got it wrong, and I think her deal is appalling, I think she's come up with a good compromise deal for both sides of the argument. Its an awful deal for the UK but it is the compromise people were asking for.
She wants all the leaders there. You can't criticise her for excluding people then say she should have a 1-2-1 with him, excluding others. I think she 100% right to say all of them or none.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
What chance? Those who attended her mtg last night came out and said it was a waste of time and she offered nothing new.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
It’s only her opinion it’s a good compromise, you yourself say it’s a awful deal.
We are in this situation because of choices she’s made and now were at the deadline she’s throwing her teddy!
Maybe we do need to TELL the EU we’re starting again and by again we mean getting our own house in order before we negotiate.
We are being bullied in to accepting something we don’t want, both by the EU and TM.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Am still sure that she will get the deal through through basically saying it's that or no deal. But can't help but wonder what long term damage all these shenanigans will cause to our faith in politics, parliament and our democratically elected politicians, which could have serious long term implications for the governance of this country. I know we all moan about our PMs over the years but in reality we have not really had any real hard line ideological crackpots in charge (well Thatch was close.. 
)
But ideological crack pots and extremist leaders like chaos and distrust in the mainstream, they like tension and conflict, they thrive on a divided society and encourage fear of mostly imaginary enemies to forwards their own personal ambitions. And like it or not a lot of people are taken in and it becomes a bit like a cult. So I pray to god we do not end up going down that avenue. All of which is ironic as this is all being done in the name of democracy apparently.
)But ideological crack pots and extremist leaders like chaos and distrust in the mainstream, they like tension and conflict, they thrive on a divided society and encourage fear of mostly imaginary enemies to forwards their own personal ambitions. And like it or not a lot of people are taken in and it becomes a bit like a cult. So I pray to god we do not end up going down that avenue. All of which is ironic as this is all being done in the name of democracy apparently.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Did they offer something new.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Running a business and running a democracy are simply not comparanle!
lets face it She has put the Tory Party and her grip on power above the good of the country, a bit like the architect of this mess DC, who only called the referendum to appease the far right of the Tory party
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Post 7200 says it so much better than I could
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Not sure where you are going with this. Are you suggesting TM is the problem and the MPs are behaving reasonably?Am still sure that she will get the deal through through basically saying it's that or no deal. But can't help but wonder what long term damage all these shenanigans will cause to our faith in politics, parliament and our democratically elected politicians, which could have serious long term implications for the governance of this country. I know we all moan about our PMs over the years but in reality we have not really had any real hard line ideological crackpots in charge (well Thatch was close..
But ideological crack pots and extremist leaders like chaos and distrust in the mainstream, they like tension and conflict, they thrive on a divided society and encourage fear of mostly imaginary enemies to forwards their own personal ambitions. And like it or not a lot of people are taken in and it becomes a bit like a cult. So I pray to god we do not end up going down that avenue. All of which is ironic as this is all being done in the name of democracy apparently.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
YES, YES AND YES!
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
It wasn’t that type of mtg! It was a briefing from her prior to the press conference!
I think this should have been looked at from outside party lines. There are moderates throughout parliament that possibly could have got a consensus through but all the press focus on is Rees Mogg, Boris or total Remainers. There are a decent number in the middle that may have got something together but now we may never know. Liddington promised a series of Indicative votes this week following the Benn amendment, that has gone awfully quiet hasn't it? Had the Benn amendment got through then maybe, 2yrs too late, we may have discovered what individual MP's actually wanted and what would have got through. If that all failed then TM could have point in calling them out but at the moment she is slagging them for not agreeing with her deal, a deal they have had no say in other than at the very end of the timsecale. She had delayed and delayed in order to bully her deal through and is losing it because they are not being bullied.
Corbyn was pathetic yesterday in walknig out because Chukka was there. That was embarrassing and pretty much confirmed why Chukka and others left.
She needs to go, an election needs to take place and whoever is left standing needs to start again with the EU, have a 1yr delay. Whether any of that happens is doubtful but that is the best chance we all have of something going through.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
So you would prefer she didn't brief them.
That makes it entirely different though. It is not a discussion to see how to progress matters, she is merely telling them what she is going to do. Very different scenarios.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Rumours this morning that Chuka Umanna is considering quitting TiG and joining Hamas so that Corbyn will be happy to sit in a room and talk to him.
I agree with your last 2 points but think your first is a little naive. You have only got to look at how the various votes went in the last few weeks/months to see that there is too much polarisation and extremism in parliament for any group of moderates to succeed.
I was pleased when Benn was named as head of the cross-party committee on Brexit but very disappointed with how the committee functioned almost from day 1. They seemed to start with a conclusion. They had a majority of Remainers and wanted another referendum right from day 1. Even the moderates only appear moderate to those that have a similar mind set.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
If you read what has come out, he was led to believe it was a 1-2-1 mtg on turning up he found the other leaders there! Now pause, Chukka is NOT a leader of a party, they themselves have stated they are not a party they are a group, he is no more than a disillushioned back bench MP,
TM moved the goalposts and got the reaction she probably wanted, ie, are we talking about her wasting all these leaders ( minus Chukka) time or are we talking about Corbyn?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Not overly going in one direction in terms of blame. I thought TMs speech last night was very ill judged in trying to apportion blame to the MPs. I am sure many of them are struggling to reconcile the need to honour what their constituents voted for with what they feel is best for the country. And others are just using this as a means to forward their own personal political ambitions or their blinkered ideological dogmas.
You can apportion blame just about everywhere if you really want to as many posts in this thread have done so. It's just a bit depression that we are seeing exactly what happens if you try and enact a massive change without really thinking through how to do it or the potential implications. And whilst I think there will be serious economic implications of whatever Brexit we end up with, that will disproportionately impact those that can least afford it, the damage to our society in terms of essentially just being a decent tolerant society that works for the good of all could be even worse.
Do you know that was the reaction she wanted? Do you know it was the Labour expectation that it was a 1-2-1? (BTW, it looked like Barry Gardner was thinking on the fly when he said that on Breakfast News this morning). That's a Hogan-esque line, making facts out of opinions.
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