Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Deleted member 16999]

Do you know that was the reaction she wanted? Do you know it was the Labour expectation that it was a 1-2-1? (BTW, it looked like Barry Gardner was thinking on the fly when he said that on Breakfast News this morning). That's a Hogan-esque line, making facts out of opinions.

Emily Thornberry stated it last night on Preston mate, if she’s lying that’s a different answer.

 

[Crazyface]

I think this should have been looked at from outside party lines. There are moderates throughout parliament that possibly could have got a consensus through but all the press focus on is Rees Mogg, Boris or total Remainers. There are a decent number in the middle that may have got something together but now we may never know. Liddington promised a series of Indicative votes this week following the Benn amendment, that has gone awfully quiet hasn't it? Had the Benn amendment got through then maybe, 2yrs too late, we may have discovered what individual MP's actually wanted and what would have got through. If that all failed then TM could have point in calling them out but at the moment she is slagging them for not agreeing with her deal, a deal they have had no say in other than at the very end of the timsecale. She had delayed and delayed in order to bully her deal through and is losing it because they are not being bullied.

Corbyn was pathetic yesterday in walknig out because Chukka was there. That was embarrassing and pretty much confirmed why Chukka and others left.

She needs to go, an election needs to take place and whoever is left standing needs to start again with the EU, have a 1yr delay. Whether any of that happens is doubtful but that is the best chance we all have of something going through.

WHAT!!!!? Is this the real LT posting?

We need to leave without a deal. This means we can do what we want with our money and not be tied to those UNELECTED (lets not forget this!!!!!) idiot. although our elceted ones are much the same. Educated idiots who have to common sense and do not know what the man/woman who voted out want. They want OUT. NO DEAL NO SWEET NOTHING! OUT MEANS OUT. etc etc etc. Polititians have no connection with the actual voters and should all be removed. A revolution is what we want. Removed those "educated" DH's and put in people who will fight for the people!!!!!!!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I see the Stop Brexit Petition 'broke' after 600,000 people signed.........why am I not surprised at that.

 

[Crazyface]

Not overly going in one direction in terms of blame. I thought TMs speech last night was very ill judged in trying to apportion blame to the MPs. I am sure many of them are struggling to reconcile the need to honour what their constituents voted for with what they feel is best for the country. And others are just using this as a means to forward their own personal political ambitions or their blinkered ideological dogmas.

You can apportion blame just about everywhere if you really want to as many posts in this thread have done so. It's just a bit depression that we are seeing exactly what happens if you try and enact a massive change without really thinking through how to do it or the potential implications. And whilst I think there will be serious economic implications of whatever Brexit we end up with, that will disproportionately impact those that can least afford it, the damage to our society in terms of essentially just being a decent tolerant society that works for the good of all could be even worse.

She is right though. The MP's don't want her deal, cos it's crup, but don't want to leave without a deal. THEY HAVE CREATED THE IMPASS, by 2 TWO BLUDDY VOTES, and now we can't find a way out.

THE ONLY solution is to ride this out and leave without a deal on the 29th and see what happens. Will the earth stop spinning? Will it halls. Everything will be fine! Just like it was when it was when we voted and we were warned that their would be disaster everywhere. Was there? No!

 

[Dan2501]

I see the Stop Brexit Petition 'broke' after 600,000 people signed.........why am I not surprised at that.

I signed it this morning when it was at about 100k, mental how quickly it blew up.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Albert Einstein “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

 

[Crazyface]

TM should have stood up in the HOC and told the muppets in there what they have done and walked out giving them all the finger. Then announced on TV she was quitting and good luck with everything as she was off to Brussels on a shed load of money,for this is what she will be doing.

 

[SocketRocket]

Albert Einstein “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”.

That would be very true if you asked Jeremy Corbyn what his views were on Brexit, you would never understand. If someone smacked you around the head with a 4x2 it would hurt, after a few more you would probably be dead though.

 

[Mudball]

View attachment 26886

Well her Churchill moment was less Winston but more like the Insurance dog - chasing her tail and going in circles plus she shat all over the place and then blamed Parliament for not carrying a foul bag to clean up.. the reality is that people will end up having to live with all the poo and smell ..

 

[Hacker Khan]

She is right though. The MP's don't want her deal, cos it's crup, but don't want to leave without a deal. THEY HAVE CREATED THE IMPASS, by 2 TWO BLUDDY VOTES, and now we can't find a way out.

THE ONLY solution is to ride this out and leave without a deal on the 29th and see what happens. Will the earth stop spinning? Will it halls. Everything will be fine! Just like it was when it was when we voted and we were warned that their would be disaster everywhere. Was there? No!

I'm sure the earth will still spin. However just about every serious projection has said a no deal will make us economically worse off, and MPs know that. The short term fluctuations of the pound are not that relevant, it is the long term prospects that we need to be good or essentially society is in trouble.

 

[Foxholer]

Am still sure that she will get the deal through through basically saying it's that or no deal...

I have a feeling that the result could actually be 'No Deal' followed by further 'negotiations' about how to manage UK/EU border - whis IS actually ALL THIS 'DEAL' IS ABOUT! And lo and behold, the result will be (virtually) no change from what is on the table now! And Parliament WILL either grudgingly approve it or have it forced upon it!

Then talks about trade, synchronisation of standards, security coordination and all the other UK/EU relationship issues, that many people still think was what this deal is about, can/will follow.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That would be very true if you asked Jeremy Corbyn what his views were on Brexit. If someone smacked you around the head with a 4x2 it would hurt, after a few more you would probably be dead.

More deflection and again only aimed at one person.

 

[Hacker Khan]

“If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.” W.C Fields.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

“If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.” W.C Fields.

The only place fit for Corbyn to run.
Just thought I’d get the comment in first.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I have a feeling that the result could actually be 'No Deal' followed by further 'negotiations' about how to manage UK/EU border - whis IS actually ALL THIS 'DEAL' IS ABOUT! And lo and behold, the result will be (virtually) no change from what is on the table now! And Parliament WILL either grudgingly approve it or have it forced upon it!

Then talks about trade, synchronisation of standards, security coordination and all the other UK/EU relationship issues, that many people still think was what this deal is about, can/will follow.

Would us leaving with no deal actually force the EU to advance trade talks as a priority rather than the current situation where we are being told we can't talk about a future trade agreement until everything else is confirmed? As Hobbit previously pointed out about the vast amount of fruit and veg coming from Spain that could be left rotting in queues at ports and other business throughout Europe pushing for a deal to be agreed so that they can continue to sell in to our market at their current levels without restriction.

 

[Foxholer]

A sizeable chunk of me wants to see May's extension requested denied. The EU isn't going to change its position and Parliament isn't going to accept the deal the UK has negotiated - even in 3 more months. So let's get on with the post-Brexit situation - and different negotiations - asap!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I agree with your last 2 points but think your first is a little naive. You have only got to look at how the various votes went in the last few weeks/months to see that there is too much polarisation and extremism in parliament for any group of moderates to succeed.

I was pleased when Benn was named as head of the cross-party committee on Brexit but very disappointed with how the committee functioned almost from day 1. They seemed to start with a conclusion. They had a majority of Remainers and wanted another referendum right from day 1. Even the moderates only appear moderate to those that have a similar mind set.

I agree my first point was a bit idealistic. However she made the whole process confrontational from the beginning, perhaps inevitable considering the style of British politics. However, that method fails completely if you can not follow it through, which she can not. She failed to see early on that she had no consensus and could not get her deal through. She thought she could just carry on regardless and everyone would have to come around to her way of thinking.

How can she now build bridges, not sure she wants to though, how can she persuade people across to her deal? All she has is bluster and bribes and they are not bringing enough over.

A new broom may bring a new approach from the EU because at the moment I can not see them shifting whilst she is in charge.

 

[Crazyface]

I'm sure the earth will still spin. However just about every serious projection has said a no deal will make us economically worse off, and MPs know that. The short term fluctuations of the pound are not that relevant, it is the long term prospects that we need to be good or essentially society is in trouble.

They said all this when we voted. OH no it will be a disaster for the economy etc etc. Even that Yank in charge of our main BANK. I was nearly taken in. But that clown has been proved amazingly incompetent and WRONG. We have one of the only plus economys in Europe at the mo' even out doing Germany. LOL. Germany, run by Humpty Dumpty! LOL Lets see how bluddy clever she is now? See if she can turn round a failing economy? It's all well and good running one that's doing well, not so easy when it starts to fail. Can she? I wager she's as thick as she looks. The fat lump of clay!

 

[Foxholer]

Would us leaving with no deal actually force the EU to advance trade talks as a priority rather than the current situation where we are being told we can't talk about a future trade agreement until everything else is confirmed? As Hobbit previously pointed out about the vast amount of fruit and veg coming from Spain that could be left rotting in queues at ports and other business throughout Europe pushing for a deal to be agreed so that they can continue to sell in to our market at their current levels without restriction.

Why woud there be any difference? A No Deal now would mean that trade talks could start immediately - though, as you imply, the EU could (and, imo, probably would) stall them until border arrangements are settled. But that would be guaranteed if the entire process is deferred for 3 months! Meantime UK can get on with negotiating/implementing deals with non-EU countries - which would likely create pressure from EU members towards EU Commission as that rotting fruit and veg etc, would be in EU ports and warehouses.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They said all this when we voted. OH no it will be a disaster for the economy etc etc. Even that Yank in charge of our main BANK. I was nearly taken in. But that clown has been proved amazingly incompetent and WRONG. We have one of the only plus economys in Europe at the mo' even out doing Germany. LOL. Germany, run by Humpty Dumpty! LOL Lets see how bluddy clever she is now? See if she can turn round a failing economy? It's all well and good running one that's doing well, not so easy when it starts to fail. Can she? I wager she's as thick as she looks. The fat lump of clay!

Can you not just post without insulting people? It deflects from your point.