Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[drdel]

I think Theresa May is the Tories version of Labours Diane Abbott.

Difference...

Abbott was wrong.

May, although tactics may be missguided, is right. Parliament has frustrated negotiations by playing games and not showing competent diplomacy.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The word that sprung to mind last night was delusional. She has been bad for a while but last night was TM going over the edge.

 

[Hobbit]

The word that sprung to mind last night was delusional. She has been bad for a while but last night was TM going over the edge.

Or maybe she was showing some spine for a change, saying it as she did. We, on here, and a significant majority of the electorate have severely criticised her and Parliament as a whole. Why can't she criticise those that have thwarted the govt?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Or maybe she was showing some spine for a change, saying it as she did. We, on here, and a significant majority of the electorate have severely criticised her and Parliament as a whole. Why can't she criticise those that have thwarted the govt?

It depends how you see what she has done. This has been her ball all along, her rules. She hasn't listened to MPs at any stage even when they were telling her this wont get through. Now she is throwing a huff because the MPs are sticking to their guns, doing what they said they would do. Maybe if she had listened 2yrs ago, 18 months ago, 12 months ago etc. This is her mess and she still refuses to listen and change.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Or maybe she was showing some spine for a change, saying it as she did. We, on here, and a significant majority of the electorate have severely criticised her and Parliament as a whole. Why can't she criticise those that have thwarted the govt?

Bit late for showing some spine now Brian, should have stood up to them months ago or not carried out the referendum result. Finally finding the testicular fortitude to stand up to her colleagues now that her dog's dinner is the only deal on the table is the last thing we need.

 

[Hobbit]

It depends how you see what she has done. This has been her ball all along, her rules. She hasn't listened to MPs at any stage even when they were telling her this wont get through. Now she is throwing a huff because the MPs are sticking to their guns, doing what they said they would do. Maybe if she had listened 2yrs ago, 18 months ago, 12 months ago etc. This is her mess and she still refuses to listen and change.

But listen to what? To Jeremy Corbyn's version? Rees-Mogg's version? Vince Cable's version? Labour's 6 points, that became 5 this week? SNP's "we're not going" version?

She got all the party leaders together this week only for Corbyn to walk out when Chuka turned up. Corbyn then ragged her in PMQ and said he wants to meet her 1-2-1 - so he's dismissing the other parties too. There is no consensus in Parliament. Only the LibDems and the SNP have had a consistent party line right through the last x years.

Personally, I think her version is a Brino deal but it does respect the original vote AND try and find some middle ground for the Remainers. Its half in, half out. Isn't that the compromise Remainers were asking for? And when offered a BRINO they've shown that they don't want compromise.

 

[Hobbit]

Bit late for showing some spine now Brian, should have stood up to them months ago or not carried out the referendum result. Finally finding the testicular fortitude to stand up to her colleagues now that her dog's dinner is the only deal on the table is the last thing we need.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I wish she'd sought cross-party consensus when the Tories failed to gain any majority at the botched election.

 

[SocketRocket]

It depends how you see what she has done. This has been her ball all along, her rules. She hasn't listened to MPs at any stage even when they were telling her this wont get through. Now she is throwing a huff because the MPs are sticking to their guns, doing what they said they would do. Maybe if she had listened 2yrs ago, 18 months ago, 12 months ago etc. This is her mess and she still refuses to listen and change.

How can anyone listen to what the MPs are saying, they are saying different things and there appears to be no way they will agree on anything. She is right that this has gone on long enough and I would imagine most of the nation are totally fed up to the back teeth with their self gratification and party games. IMO there are two logical ways to end this mess, they either accept her deal or we leave next week without a deal, many people (including me) would like a better deal but there isn't one, many would like to change the decision of the referendum but that would destroy the foundation of our democracy and anyone who refutes that are either in denial or unable to accept their vote lost. There must be some honorable people still in Parliament but I am looking closely and finding it very hard to spot them. A slow motion car crash unfolding before our eyes and it's absolutely pathetic.

 

[Mudball]

Another pointless petition doing the rounds.. aimed to get A50 revoked. Woke up this morning and it was nearly 400k. Had my morning cuppa and breakie and it was nearly 450k!!

The reason I say it is pointless is that it will get the sterile response from Maybot .. ‘we will not revoke, we will deliver the Will of 17m, I am on your side... blah blah’

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Labour certainly did, which was just as wrong - except, perhaps, for a tiny area that they were actually responsible for. But that's how politics and the public work.

It was totally forsee-able that the EU could/would dig its heels in and force the problems it has. This scenario was even documented! But it was never considered relevant by those who simply wanted (or were convinced) to leave! It may have been handled 'badly', but that was a deliberate strategy by the EU! Remember those, me amongst them, who declared that the EU would deliberately 'play hard-ball' in order to discourage others from going the same way?

I'm certain they could - and did! And decided that this was the 'least bad' way!

As for actually assigning blame in the first place...Try blaming those, particularly MPs, who actually pushed to Leave, then ran away and hid as soon as it was voted in! I believe the vast majority of MPs (all parties) were in favour of Remain. It was only because of growing support to Tories were moving to (or towards) UKIP that Cameron decided he had to stop all the rumblings.

I have little doubt that those same MPs will return to being noisy again once May stands down - as I'm equally certain that she will do at a 'convenient' point once Brexit happens. It was, and was always going to be, a poisoned chalice! And perhaps you should consider looking to yourself if you really want to assign blame for the difficulties that have been encountered. The whole exercise simply reinforces my cynicism of (particularly UK) political attitudes - including the press and 'the electorate'!

May was the one last night “blaming” everyone else, criticising everyone else and then telling us she’s on our side! Please, she went lower than a snake’s belly trying to get the public on her side and it’s much too late for that.
Just like Cameron she’ll stamp her feet and walk off to retirement.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

How can anyone listen to what the MPs are saying, they are saying different things and there appears to be no way they will agree on anything. She is right that this has gone on long enough and I would imagine most of the nation are totally fed up to the back teeth with their self gratification and party games. IMO there are two logical ways to end this mess, they either accept her deal or we leave next week without a deal, many people (including me) would like a better deal but there isn't one, many would like to change the decision of the referendum but that would destroy the foundation of our democracy and anyone who denies that are either in denial or unable to accept their vote lost. There must be some honorable people still in Parliament but I am looking closely and finding it very hard to spot them. A slow motion car crash unfolding before our eyes and it's absolutely pathetic.

You can’t have it both ways! Parliament is exercising it’s democratic rights to ask questions etc and you say they’re wrong.
And I’m sorry but saying we should accept this deal because it’s the only one on offer is just as dellusion as TM.

 

[Hobbit]

May was the one last night “blaming” everyone else, criticising everyone else and then telling us she’s on our side! Please, she went lower than a snake’s belly trying to get the public on her side and it’s much too late for that.
Just like Cameron she’ll stamp her feet and walk off to retirement.

To be honest, I've only seen the odd clip. I just can't be bothered with the posturing from all sides.

As to her riding off into retirement; I'd rather she was either sacked or resigned now - well, actually after the failed second attempt to get her deal through.

 

[SocketRocket]

Another pointless petition doing the rounds.. aimed to get A50 revoked. Woke up this morning and it was nearly 400k. Had my morning cuppa and breakie and it was nearly 450k!!

The reason I say it is pointless is that it will get the sterile response from Maybot .. ‘we will not revoke, we will deliver the Will of 17m, I am on your side... blah blah’

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Another pathetic attempt by remainers who cant accept democracy. Do you actually expect her to take any notice of it.

 

[Hobbit]

You can’t have it both ways! Parliament is exercising it’s democratic rights to ask questions etc and you say they’re wrong.
And I’m sorry but saying we should accept this deal because it’s the only one on offer is just as dellusion as TM.

Its a tough one. When should questions stop and when should MP's get behind something they just think is the best of a bad job?

I dare say the majority of us have had, at some time or other, either questioned our boss or had our staff question us. Sooner or later we've had to suck it up and get on with what is in front of us.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or maybe she was showing some spine for a change, saying it as she did. We, on here, and a significant majority of the electorate have severely criticised her and Parliament as a whole. Why can't she criticise those that have thwarted the govt?

Come on Bri, she denied anyone else any involvement from the beginning and now blames everyone else!
That’s not leadership!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Another pathetic attempt by remainers who cant accept democracy. Do you actually expect her to take any notice of it.

You keep going on about democracy and criticising parliament! Is it only certain bits of democracy you support.

 

[SocketRocket]

You can’t have it both ways! Parliament is exercising it’s democratic rights to ask questions etc and you say they’re wrong.
And I’m sorry but saying we should accept this deal because it’s the only one on offer is just as dellusion as TM.

And what about your glorious leaders contribution to events. 'Im not joining in if He's there. What a Buffoon!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its a tough one. When should questions stop and when should MP's get behind something they just think is the best of a bad job?

I dare say the majority of us have had, at some time or other, either questioned our boss or had our staff question us. Sooner or later we've had to suck it up and get on with what is in front of us.

Or we’ve had the boss listen and adjust, she’s not listened from day 1.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And what about your glorious leaders contribution to events. 'Im not joining in if He's there. What a Buffoon!

Quick nothing else to say, let’s deflect!

Why won’t she have a 1-2-1 with him?

 

[SocketRocket]

You keep going on about democracy and criticising parliament! Is it only certain bits of democracy you support.

Yes it is, the type that works for the will of the people and enacts their decisions when they decide. Not some silly Snowflake petition that is just another case of sour grapes, it will get looked at if it has sufficient numbers but then deserves escalating to the bin where it belongs.