Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[SocketRocket]

I saw a good explanation today by someone who said the choice is between the US method of putting chlorine on chickens to get rid of the faeces or having stronger EU regulations that mostly prevent faeces getting there in the first place. Enjoy your KFC....

The article I read said it was to prevent bacteria that we currently have problems with in our poultry and it is no risk to our health. EU regulations only allow washing of poultry with water which does not remove bacteria like ecolli. I can understand us preventing imports if it's for animal welfare but not this.

 

[Old Skier]

So are the Leavers ready for chlorine washed meat from our cousins on the other side of the pond.. hey it is ready to give us a quick trade deal..

Go well with rump steak.😛 Have you seen the back end of cows. 😋

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Once we overthrow the EU yoke, we can put our stuff wherever we want to.. 😰

Scary stuff, dropping decent EU standards to accept dodgy cheap USA standards. Beef as well as chicken remember.
I think the ERG/UKIP lot call it taking back control.

 

[drdel]

Scary stuff, dropping decent EU standards to accept dodgy cheap USA standards. Beef as well as chicken remember.
I think the ERG/UKIP lot call it taking back control.

Really! The FDA have a pretty good record of controlling the USA food chain and medicines: I don't see millions of American dying of chlorine (or other food contamination) induced health issues - the lawyers would have had a field day!

We seem to have adopted the media's need to hype and over-exaggerate everything. I simply don't understand how, all of a sudden, everything involving the EU/Brussels is fantastic yet everything from USA is dreadful - flaming ridiculous.

 

[Hobbit]

Having worked for a company that exported to the USA, their standards are extremely high. What we exported there had to pass far more stringent testing that what went to the EU.

I don't know whether or not chlorine washing is good, bad or indifferent but with US citizens propensity for litigation, and for that litigation to be in the $millions, I'd be very surprised if all the horror stories are true.

 

[harpo_72]

Just calm down, and let the facts come out. If there are links to serious health issues they will make their way to the surface.
On the whole I don’t fancy their methods, but I am sure there will be a market in this country for both. Plus if there is a health link then those foods can be tariffed/taxed to meet the shortfall and pay for the health service.

What I resent is the Americans dipping their oar in a UK /EU debate.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...sack-failing-grayling-over-33m-ferry-debacle/

£33,000,000.00 'fine' for incompetence yet he is still a Tory minister.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...sack-failing-grayling-over-33m-ferry-debacle/

£33,000,000.00 'fine' for incompetence yet he is still a Tory minister.

See post #6369

 

[Foxholer]

While I'm happy to have the chlorine wash ensure the final product is free from salmonella (et al) when it leaves the factory, I'm concerned that it could be used to 'cover up' all sorts of poor standard health processes early on! That covers the 'edible' aspect, but there's also the Animal Welfare aspect where US standards are significantly lower than UK's (via EU regs).

And I'm definitely against the use of 'synthetically' adding bulk to beef via hormone injection!

So I'm all for UK maintaining existing (EU) standards!

In any case, I'd like to see labelling on final product indcate where it originates (existing rules aren't tight enough imo) and any other relevant info. That way the consumer (or at least the purchaser) can make their own decision as to which to buy. In the case of chlorine washed Chicken - though not hormone dosed Beef - I'd be happy to see a tariff used as incentive/choice for producers.

 

[Mudball]

That post highlights sad way people have started turning against each other and looking for ways to belittle those who voted differently in a referendum on membership of the European Union. I really feel sorry for the future of our nation if this is what we have become, the problem is not whether we stay or leave but the moral fibre that binds people to accept the will of democracy and bend their will to support its outcome.

Maybe you could reconsider that post and see that the future will never be perfect but just maybe with some positivity it could be OK.

I agree this is the low point (hence liked your post). Equally it shows the range of things we have to deal with when we leave. US wants to us to take chlorine washed chicken - a process that is banned here. The Chlorine wash itself is not dangerous but it is birds welfare (http://theconversation.com/chlorine...ains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921) . Equally it is not Project Fear either. Did Liam Fox not mention last year that we should get over the fear and accept American Chicken as it is cheaper than what we have. My fear is pretty much that we start lowering our guard to get some quick fixes which opens door to cheaper imports. In many ways we will replace cheap/unskilled Eastern Europen labour with cheap/untested imports - Chorine was Chicken or hormone injected American beef, Clothes made by Bangladeshi Kids, Vietnamese Pork, Japanese Whale Meat etc. ... all in the name of a trade deal.

 

[Hobbit]

While I'm happy to have the chlorine wash ensure the final product is free from salmonella (et al) when it leaves the factory, I'm concerned that it could be used to 'cover up' all sorts of poor standard health processes early on! That covers the 'edible' aspect, but there's also the Animal Welfare aspect where US standards are significantly lower than UK's (via EU regs).

And I'm definitely against the use of 'synthetically' adding bulk to beef via hormone injection!

So I'm all for UK maintaining existing (EU) standards!

In any case, I'd like to see labelling on final product indcate where it originates (existing rules aren't tight enough imo) and any other relevant info. That way the consumer (or at least the purchaser) can make their own decision as to which to buy. In the case of chlorine washed Chicken - though not hormone dosed Beef - I'd be happy to see a tariff used as incentive/choice for producers.

I'm not that sure that the current EU standards are all they are cracked up to be, or that the UK is following them. Maybe they are or maybe they're not.

My own experiences of meats over here in Spain sees some very differing standards but on the whole there is a world of a difference in quality. An example, we bought some gammon steaks from the butchers in the village. Put the first one in the frying pan expecting it to shrink down as all the water in them, UK-style, comes out. Had to get another frying pan out as it barely shrunk at all, and that's been an ongoing theme out here. Apart from the odd dodgy bit of meat, the quality is way better.

 

[Hobbit]

I agree this is the low point (hence liked your post). Equally it shows the range of things we have to deal with when we leave. US wants to us to take chlorine washed chicken - a process that is banned here. The Chlorine wash itself is not dangerous but it is birds welfare (http://theconversation.com/chlorine...ains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921) . Equally it is not Project Fear either. Did Liam Fox not mention last year that we should get over the fear and accept American Chicken as it is cheaper than what we have. My fear is pretty much that we start lowering our guard to get some quick fixes which opens door to cheaper imports. In many ways we will replace cheap/unskilled Eastern Europen labour with cheap/untested imports - Chorine was Chicken or hormone injected American beef, Clothes made by Bangladeshi Kids, Vietnamese Pork, Japanese Whale Meat etc. ... all in the name of a trade deal.

Do you honestly think the UK isn't already importing goods from around the world already, many of which are of suspect quality? The UK has a massive, outstanding fine with the EU over imports from China.

 

[robinthehood]

Handle and cook poultry correctly and there is no need to wash it in chlorine.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm not that sure that the current EU standards are all they are cracked up to be, or that the UK is following them. Maybe they are or maybe they're not.

My own experiences of meats over here in Spain sees some very differing standards but on the whole there is a world of a difference in quality. An example, we bought some gammon steaks from the butchers in the village. Put the first one in the frying pan expecting it to shrink down as all the water in them, UK-style, comes out. Had to get another frying pan out as it barely shrunk at all, and that's been an ongoing theme out here. Apart from the odd dodgy bit of meat, the quality is way better.

Depends where you buy them from. Get the Tescos basics range and I imagine there is a fair amount of water in them. The ones I get from my local farm shop seem pretty much all meat to me. Fully appreciate that there are many who can not afford to buy from the local farm shop and rely on cheap food to survive. But I suppose the question is how many of the checks and balances that we currently have, especially around animal welfare, do we want to keep in the name of getting cheaper produce. Plus I'm struggling to see how opening up our agricultural market to US imports will help our farmers.

And that's without other areas in the 18 pages of T&Cs that I am sure people will interpret as either common sense or an opportunity for the US to take over the NHS, depending on your point of view. I am sure there is a good deal to be done with the US, but with the current incumbent in the White House, the timing of needing to do one quickly is not ideal.

 

[drdel]

I agree this is the low point (hence liked your post). Equally it shows the range of things we have to deal with when we leave. US wants to us to take chlorine washed chicken - a process that is banned here. The Chlorine wash itself is not dangerous but it is birds welfare (http://theconversation.com/chlorine...ains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921) . Equally it is not Project Fear either. Did Liam Fox not mention last year that we should get over the fear and accept American Chicken as it is cheaper than what we have. My fear is pretty much that we start lowering our guard to get some quick fixes which opens door to cheaper imports. In many ways we will replace cheap/unskilled Eastern Europen labour with cheap/untested imports - Chorine was Chicken or hormone injected American beef, Clothes made by Bangladeshi Kids, Vietnamese Pork, Japanese Whale Meat etc. ... all in the name of a trade deal.

Been happening for years !!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not that sure that the current EU standards are all they are cracked up to be, or that the UK is following them. Maybe they are or maybe they're not.

My own experiences of meats over here in Spain sees some very differing standards but on the whole there is a world of a difference in quality. An example, we bought some gammon steaks from the butchers in the village. Put the first one in the frying pan expecting it to shrink down as all the water in them, UK-style, comes out. Had to get another frying pan out as it barely shrunk at all, and that's been an ongoing theme out here. Apart from the odd dodgy bit of meat, the quality is way better.

There is a world of difference between supermarket meat and a decent butchers meat. As you say, it doesn't shrink, you need less of it because of this and it has a smell to it. We haven't bought supermarket meat for a while now, it's a false economy.

 

[Mudball]

There is a world of difference between supermarket meat and a decent butchers meat. As you say, it doesn't shrink, you need less of it because of this and it has a smell to it. We haven't bought supermarket meat for a while now, it's a false economy.

The only reason we get supermarket rather than butcher is because the supermarket is open when we can go shopping - usually on the way back from work ..

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The only reason we get supermarket rather than butcher is because the supermarket is open when we can go shopping - usually on the way back from work ..

No criticism meant in my post. We buy plenty in supermarkets and convenience is a massive factor. We are lucky in that we found a butchers wholesaler nearby where we go once a month and stock the freezer up. It takes a bit of planning and a good sized freezer but it works well for us. We occasionally have to buy meat from a supermarket when we run out and it is convenient but the difference is marked.

 

[Sweep]

No it wasn't. It was agreed in the Spanish Cabinet in early January. I was in a meeting mid Jan, along with about 100 other Brits, in which there was an official from the British Consulate, the local Mayor and an official from the Spanish govt. It was announced at the meeting that the Spanish govt had agreed it and it only needed 2 things. 1) to be passed as a Royal Decree, and 2) for the UK govt to reciprocate.

The Royal Decree was passed this week, and we await the UK govt to reciprocate.

Hmmm... possibly a bit of creative reporting from who else but the infamous BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47412708
The article is dated March 1 (Friday) and makes no mention of a Royal Decree and also says “Earlier on Friday, the EU rejected calls for an agreement to protect citizens from the UK and the rest of the bloc in the event of a no-deal Brexit.”
So either the Spanish Cabinet agreed the move on Friday which is clearly inferred or you can’t trust BBC reporting. Who would have guessed?

 

[Blue in Munich]

Scary stuff, dropping decent EU standards to accept dodgy cheap USA standards. Beef as well as chicken remember.
I think the ERG/UKIP lot call it taking back control.

Been to the USA numerous times and never had food poisoning. Had one long weekend in Europe since we've been going stateside and had to get an ambulance & a doctor for Mrs BiM for food poisoning. Damn those low American standards.

Top trolling Doom, as per usual.