Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

So the fact that the pound has weakened meaning overseas investors can buy more property and more of our companies is a good thing for a newly independent Britain? We will own less and less of our infrastructure and be more and more reliant on overseas ownership and that is taking back control? What do we do when we have nothing left to sell off to foreign investors? Nope, still confused as how this will help us thrive in the future other than being the place to go for foreign investors wanting to buy some stuff up relatively cheap.

Can you give me the lottery numbers too? Some Remainers are saying that there'll be no foreign investment but you're saying there will be...

You will be right, to a certain extent, but painting it the way you have is just lazy and satisfies your argument, whether its true or not...

When you say the Pound has weakened, can you say against what and when?

Immediately prior to the vote, literally 2 weeks before, the £ was at €1.28. This I know as an absolute as I moved the purchase price of our villa over here in Spain a couple of weeks early just in case the result 'tanked' the £. If I'd waited a month I would have had to move an extra £8k to cover the drop in the £.

The £ is now trading at €1.16, the highest its been in close on a year.

Simply put, the £ is 10% down on where it was almost 3 years ago.

I find it a little odd that you are being so blinkered about something so obvious. You're not Hogan in disguise are you?

 

[Foxholer]

Hmmm... possibly a bit of creative reporting from who else but the infamous BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47412708
The article is dated March 1 (Friday) and makes no mention of a Royal Decree and also says “Earlier on Friday, the EU rejected calls for an agreement to protect citizens from the UK and the rest of the bloc in the event of a no-deal Brexit.”
So either the Spanish Cabinet agreed the move on Friday which is clearly inferred or you can’t trust BBC reporting. Who would have guessed?

Or perhaps it's neither! And you may be interpreting the article in a way fashioned by your own views (or bias!).

Spanish legislation doesn't work quite that same way that UK legislation does.

It's highly likely that the Cabinet indicated they would support (or maybe even proposed!) a (Royal) Decree on the subject some time ago - which is how Hobbit was appraised of it in Jan.
The EU rejection of a 'No Deal' protection happened on Friday. This either triggered the presentation of the Royal Decree to Cabinet or was strangely coincidental. Spanish Cabinet agreed the RD. A Royal Decree greatly shortens to 'implementation' process.

As for the Beeb's reporting.... It might not have explained the entire process - the info Hobbit was provided may not have been formalised at that stage - or may either not have dug deep enough to have found the entire story or that part may have been edited out/not included because of 'irrelevance'.

 

[Foxholer]

Really! The FDA have a pretty good record of controlling the USA food chain and medicines: I don't see millions of American dying of chlorine (or other food contamination) induced health issues - the lawyers would have had a field day!
...

There are certainly cases of Salmonella etc documented! https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/reading-07-18/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/index.html 1.2 million instances;23000 hospitalisations; 450 deaths! So not insignificant, even if not all caused by infected Poultry!

As others have pointed out, UK's (following EU) regs take the approach that preventing the existence of Salmonella etc. is better all round that killing the bug in infected birds!

...
over-exaggerate
...

...
I simply don't understand how, all of a sudden, everything involving the EU/Brussels is fantastic yet everything from USA is dreadful - flaming ridiculous.

You appear to be guilty of exaggeration in your own argument!

Not everything emanating from EU/Brussels is 'fantastic' and not everything from USA is dreadful!

But there's obviously a significant group, myself included, who prefer the UK/EU way(s) rather than the US one(s).

Same applies to GM products, but that's not for (my) health reasons.

And I'm definitely against injecting cattle with (growth) hormones!

 

[Foxholer]

Can you give me the lottery numbers too? Some Remainers are saying that there'll be no foreign investment but you're saying there will be...

You will be right, to a certain extent, but painting it the way you have is just lazy and satisfies your argument, whether its true or not...

Remember what happened to the FTSE (it rose markedly due to 'foreign investment') immediately after Referendum and fall of the Pound! So there already has been - which 'proves' HK's 'lazy' argument!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So the fact that the pound has weakened meaning overseas investors can buy more property and more of our companies is a good thing for a newly independent Britain? We will own less and less of our infrastructure and be more and more reliant on overseas ownership and that is taking back control? What do we do when we have nothing left to sell off to foreign investors? Nope, still confused as how this will help us thrive in the future other than being the place to go for foreign investors wanting to buy some stuff up relatively cheap.

First they came for our football clubs...………...

 

[SocketRocket]

First they came for our football clubs...………...

First they came for our football clubs...………...

And prevented them from closing but then again Doom they are foreigners so we should be careful of what they're up to 🙄

 

[Sweep]

Don't think you said what timeframe but since this is a Brexit thread - graph shows last 3 year picture - £ bombed against dollar and euro because of referendum result june 2016, was already falling steadily in the lead up to the referendum. Hasn't really moved since June 16 and well down on April 2015. Appears to have rallied a little of late.

Is that not overall weakening?

Pros and cons of strong currency when you're trying to buy or sell from/to overseas but think most people would prefer their currency be a stronger one than a weaker one?

View attachment 26701


Also - Wondering if this article applies to some on here - up at 6am..... ready to argue!
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/poli...ns-it-or-if-its-just-a-wind-up-20190227182976

Don't think you said what timeframe but since this is a Brexit thread - graph shows last 3 year picture - £ bombed against dollar and euro because of referendum result june 2016, was already falling steadily in the lead up to the referendum. Hasn't really moved since June 16 and well down on April 2015. Appears to have rallied a little of late.

Is that not overall weakening?

Pros and cons of strong currency when you're trying to buy or sell from/to overseas but think most people would prefer their currency be a stronger one than a weaker one?

View attachment 26701


Also - Wondering if this article applies to some on here - up at 6am..... ready to argue!
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/poli...ns-it-or-if-its-just-a-wind-up-20190227182976

i didn’t say what time frame. That’s what I was asking. And that’s because it’s all relative. Everyone was concerned about the GBP bombing after the referendum but actually it just returned to where it was the previous February. Possibly because everyone thought we would vote to remain and bought into the GBP and raised its value probably unrealistically.
You can basically make the currency markets say what you want them to say, based on the dates you make comparisons. They often don’t make a great deal of sense anyway. For example GBP v EUR has risen over the past couple of weeks.

 

[Sweep]

Or perhaps it's neither! And you may be interpreting the article in a way fashioned by your own views (or bias!).

Spanish legislation doesn't work quite that same way that UK legislation does.

It's highly likely that the Cabinet indicated they would support (or maybe even proposed!) a (Royal) Decree on the subject some time ago - which is how Hobbit was appraised of it in Jan.
The EU rejection of a 'No Deal' protection happened on Friday. This either triggered the presentation of the Royal Decree to Cabinet or was strangely coincidental. Spanish Cabinet agreed the RD. A Royal Decree greatly shortens to 'implementation' process.

As for the Beeb's reporting.... It might not have explained the entire process - the info Hobbit was provided may not have been formalised at that stage - or may either not have dug deep enough to have found the entire story or that part may have been edited out/not included because of 'irrelevance'.

There are a lot of “may’s“ and “might’s” in your response. The end result is that you don’t actually know, do you?
Me? I just read the article and interpreted that the decision was made by the Spanish Cabinet on Friday March 1. No bias. I don’t live in Spain. I am not sure where you think my bias was coming from. If we didn’t have Hobbit telling us different I think we would have all taken from the article that the Spanish Cabinet made the decision on Friday.
For or against Brexit, if the Spanish Cabinet didn’t make the decision on Friday then the way this was reported skews the story.

 

[Foxholer]

There are a lot of “may’s“ and “might’s” in your response. The end result is that you don’t actually know, do you?
Me? I just read the article and interpreted that the decision was made by the Spanish Cabinet on Friday March 1. No bias. I don’t live in Spain. I am not sure where you think my bias was coming from. If we didn’t have Hobbit telling us different I think we would have all taken from the article that the Spanish Cabinet made the decision on Friday.
For or against Brexit, if the Spanish Cabinet didn’t make the decision on Friday then the way this was reported skews the story.

Indeed, plenty of 'might/mays'. That's because I don't simply 'interpret' what I read according to my bias and turn into 'facts'. If there's other evidence that conflicts, or even clarifies, I'm likely to consider that too. Remember this whole 'conversation' stemmed from my 'nothing new' response to your (correct) statement that Spanish Cabinet had approved the move on Friday.

Note the subtle difference between the bits in bold ('made the decision' is not the same as 'approved'! That could easily be described as 'creative reporting' on your part!). I strongly suspect that, as per Hobbit's post, the decision was made in early Jan (or earlier), announced to ex-pat Brits in meetings, like the ones Hobbit heard about it in, in mid Jan and Royal Decree prepared for and held until Spanish Parliamentary approval was required - which was as soon as EU quashed the 'No Deal' 'deal'.

Btw. I'm bored with this conversation! My initial input was simply to note (and point to) the fact that it was 'not new' because Hobbit had posted that that had already been agreed/decided. If you want to argue whether it was new or not, Hobbit is the one to have the conversation with, not me!

For or against Brexit, if the Spanish Cabinet didn’t make the decision on Friday then the way this was reported skews the story.

Twaddle! The report was perfectly correct!

Update: Just found this article/blog that - precise dates notwithstanding - confirms pretty much all of my above post! https://www.janetanscombe.com/news/brexit-negotiations-affecting-british-nationals-in-tenerife.html

 

[Taz]

Seems to be a lot of sense here

https://www.conservativehome.com/pl...-article-50-than-to-accept-mays-bad-deal.html

 

[Taz]

not so much this :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/04/europe-brexit-uk

 

[Sweep]

Indeed, plenty of 'might/mays'. That's because I don't simply 'interpret' what I read according to my bias and turn into 'facts'. If there's other evidence that conflicts, or even clarifies, I'm likely to consider that too. Remember this whole 'conversation' stemmed from my 'nothing new' response to your (correct) statement that Spanish Cabinet had approved the move on Friday.

Note the subtle difference between the bits in bold ('made the decision' is not the same as 'approved'! That could easily be described as 'creative reporting' on your part!). I strongly suspect that, as per Hobbit's post, the decision was made in early Jan (or earlier), announced to ex-pat Brits in meetings, like the ones Hobbit heard about it in, in mid Jan and Royal Decree prepared for and held until Spanish Parliamentary approval was required - which was as soon as EU quashed the 'No Deal' 'deal'.

Btw. I'm bored with this conversation! My initial input was simply to note (and point to) the fact that it was 'not new' because Hobbit had posted that that had already been agreed/decided. If you want to argue whether it was new or not, Hobbit is the one to have the conversation with, not me!


Twaddle! The report was perfectly correct!

Update: Just found this article/blog that - precise dates notwithstanding - confirms pretty much all of my above post! https://www.janetanscombe.com/news/brexit-negotiations-affecting-british-nationals-in-tenerife.html

This whole conversation was indeed started by your “nothing new” comment followed by your ubiquitous and incorrect exclamation mark. Your reply and comment were unnecessary, unhelpful added nothing. Basically just another failed attempt at making yourself look clever. And then it turned out there was something new, in the EU’s decision, so your comment was wrong as well.
Again, I really don’t know where you are getting the idea that there was bias in my view of the BBC report. It doesn’t affect me. I don’t live in Spain. I have no relatives who live in Spain. I don’t see that it serves either the leave or remain side. It was just a post outlining what I read in the report. That’s it. Nothing more. You chose to jump on it. Hobbit said it differed from his knowledge and he is affected as he does live in Spain.
Now, IF the BBC report is incorrect and that no moves were made in Spain on Friday, then the report is absolutely trying to give the false impression of a split between Brussels and Madrid, on the day the EU announced their move. If you cannot see that, then you should address your own bias.
As for being bored with the conversation, you are not the only one. I am often bored by your conversations. If you don’t want to get embroiled in such discussions I suggest you don’t jump on every uncontroversial and unbiased post to try to boost your own ego.

 

[Foxholer]

This whole conversation was indeed started by your “nothing new” comment followed by your ubiquitous and incorrect exclamation mark. Your reply and comment were unnecessary, unhelpful added nothing. Basically just another failed attempt at making yourself look clever. And then it turned out there was something new, in the EU’s decision, so your comment was wrong as well.
Again, I really don’t know where you are getting the idea that there was bias in my view of the BBC report. It doesn’t affect me. I don’t live in Spain. I have no relatives who live in Spain. I don’t see that it serves either the leave or remain side. It was just a post outlining what I read in the report. That’s it. Nothing more. You chose to jump on it. Hobbit said it differed from his knowledge and he is affected as he does live in Spain.
Now, IF the BBC report is incorrect and that no moves were made in Spain on Friday, then the report is absolutely trying to give the false impression of a split between Brussels and Madrid, on the day the EU announced their move. If you cannot see that, then you should address your own bias.
As for being bored with the conversation, you are not the only one. I am often bored by your conversations. If you don’t want to get embroiled in such discussions I suggest you don’t jump on every uncontroversial and unbiased post to try to boost your own ego.

Another load of twaddle!

 

[Sweep]

Another load of twaddle!

Dear Foxy,
Get a life.
With love from Sweep x

 

[Mudball]

After the Japanese, BMW is joining in on the Project Fear by saying it may shift Mini and engine work out of UK. The last time i heard the Brexit Bandwagon telling everyone that the Germans will want a quick deal as they want to sell us car. Their assertion may be true. The Germans want to sell us their fancy cars - just dont want to build them here.

https://news.sky.com/story/bmw-may-shift-mini-and-engine-work-from-uk-in-no-deal-brexit-11655739

Hours after the news broke and be carried by major publications, the Torygraph is still not carrying the news.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47457219

 

[Deleted member 18121]

How many times over the last 40 years have companies "considered" their presence in the UK? I'm going to guess that it's more than a couple.

But the BMW/Toyota "story" is relevant because it fits an agenda. How many car manufacturers have changed their production ideas and locations out of the UK whilst we've been in the EU.....

 

[Sweep]

I wonder what the reaction would be if you said to the average Canadian that if they want American manufacturers to produce in your country you have to let them run your country, make your laws, open up your borders to any American who wanted to live in Canada and you won’t be able to vote in or out the top people in American government.
Or let’s put the same proposition to Kiwis in relation to Australia. Or Pakistan in relation to India. Or Mexico in relation to America. Or anywhere else in the world for that matter.
Yup, a Mini plant (you know, that’s the car they make with Union Jack roof and Union Jack rear lights) is well worth giving your country away for - said no one, ever.
Make it in Germany and put the German flag on the roof and see if it has the same appeal.

 

[Hobbit]

Spanish Govt has just announced a 9 month extension for Brits needing to change their driving licence to a Spanish one rather than apply for an international driving permit. Yet another unilateral decision by one of the EU27. I wonder if Portugal will follow suit, as they did in January over Residencia and healthcare.

 

[harpo_72]

How many times over the last 40 years have companies "considered" their presence in the UK? I'm going to guess that it's more than a couple.

But the BMW/Toyota "story" is relevant because it fits an agenda. How many car manufacturers have changed their production ideas and locations out of the UK whilst we've been in the EU.....

How many does it take to hop on a band wagon before we give it credit?