Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Sweep]

I took my time and tried to see past the hot air, but come on, for a vote that was so close, we’d of had the same type of people and reaction if the vote had gone the other way.
Far too important to expect people who voted remain to walk away and stay silent.

With respect, there was no hot air in my post. It was genuinely how I saw things.
I agree that with a vote so close the brexiteers like Farage would have been emboldened and the Brexit issue would certainly not have gone away. I never expected it to. Just look at what happened in Scotland.
However, the default position of the UK being in the EU would have remained the status quo. Little would have changed. I don’t believe the brexiteers would have been keen to ditch democracy or call for an immediate second referendum ( it’s hard to compare exactly, because remainers and Labour are calling for a second referendum before the first is enacted. This is unprecedented.)
I don’t think we would have seen anything like the reaction, simply because little would have changed.

 

[Sweep]

Because I go back to my very simplistic view as someone who voted leave and is a Labour supporter, TM and the tories could of made Labour’s stance, policies, pov, etc irrelevant.
The focus in the media is on Labour when it should be on TM getting a deal.

The current focus is on Labour simply because they have radically changed their policy at the last minute and that position is suddenly the polar opposite of the governments.

 

[harpo_72]

The current focus is on Labour simply because they have radically changed their policy at the last minute and that position is suddenly the polar opposite of the governments.

If that polar opposite is to leave with a deal, then yes ... but am not aware anyone on here thinks TM’s deal is right.

 

[Taz]

Spot on

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101361674940964864

 

[Deleted member 16999]

With respect, there was no hot air in my post. It was genuinely how I saw things.
I agree that with a vote so close the brexiteers like Farage would have been emboldened and the Brexit issue would certainly not have gone away. I never expected it to. Just look at what happened in Scotland.
However, the default position of the UK being in the EU would have remained the status quo. Little would have changed. I don’t believe the brexiteers would have been keen to ditch democracy or call for an immediate second referendum ( it’s hard to compare exactly, because remainers and Labour are calling for a second referendum before the first is enacted. This is unprecedented.)
I don’t think we would have seen anything like the reaction, simply because little would have changed.

Hot air during the campaign, not your post!

 

[Hacker Khan]

Spot on

https://twitter.com/x/status/1101361674940964864

It's a good routine that he does and there is a lot of truth in it. Only potential difference if there was ever another one would be that I'd expect more young people would come out to vote, not sure how much that would sway the percentages though.

Agree that those that did vote last time would mostly vote in much the same way as I think we have gone way too far down the path now for people to have a sensible rational debate. And both sides are even more hardened in their views now thanks to what seems like 20 years of both sides making the same arguments over and over and over and over and over again. See this thread for proof. Also on five live there was some kind of debate this morning where on one side you had some one going on about us saving millions thought not paying MEPs wages as a reason to leave and on the other side you had some vegan baker saying she hasn't booked a holiday in Europe as she was worried about her travel insurance not being valid or some sort of stupid scare story she'd swallowed. And you kind of despair if that is where we are.

 

[Foxholer]

A potential example of REAL government mismanagement! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47403653

While EuroTunnel was never, imo, going to be considered as a contingency for...problems getting across the channel via EuroTunnel, the lack of planning (and consultation) for a 'No Deal' scenario seems pretty damning!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Also on five live there was some kind of debate this morning where on one side you had some one going on about us saving millions thought not paying MEPs wages as a reason to leave and on the other side you had some vegan baker saying she hasn't booked a holiday in Europe as she was worried about her travel insurance not being valid or some sort of stupid scare story she'd swallowed. And you kind of despair if that is where we are.

Never, ever underestimate the stupidity of everyday people

 

[Hacker Khan]

A potential example of REAL government mismanagement! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47403653

While EuroTunnel was never, imo, going to be considered as a contingency for...problems getting across the channel via EuroTunnel, the lack of planning (and consultation) for a 'No Deal' scenario seems pretty damning!

I think it's pretty clear we won't leave with a no deal on March the 29th. May be a no deal on June 29th or a deal on March the 29th, but a no deal on March the 29th where'd they'd finally have some concrete advice on what will happen and have to tell businesses and the public that they'd have to prepare for a no deal with just 2 weeks to go would just be a suicide note by the Tory party and TMay. No matter how much they try to blame others, they'll own it.

 

[Foxholer]

I think it's pretty clear we won't leave with a no deal on March the 29th. May be a no deal on June 29th or a deal on March the 29th, but a no deal on March the 29th where'd they'd finally have some concrete advice on what will happen and have to tell businesses and the public that they'd have to prepare for a no deal with just 2 weeks to go would just be a suicide note by the Tory party and TMay. No matter how much they try to blame others, they'll own it.

While I'm inclined to believe that (no 'No Deal' after 29/3) to be the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of planning/guidance etc. isn't simply another example of their inability to plan properly! And while it's the Civil service that does the work, it's the government that controls it! So it'll certainly be the Tories that 'own' that particular slurp of the poisoned chalice - they had the antidote available but failed to use it!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

£33Million compensation to Eurotunnel from the tax-payer in a settlement over the no-deal Brexit Ferry contracts.

Let’s not talk about 2nd Referendum that’s not needed, what we do need is a General Election!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

'Once we hit the iceberg we are all on it together'
Comforting words from a government minister on Brexit, according to BBC's Nick Eardley

I preferred, 'rolling up our sleeves'

 

[Mudball]

Remainers should lobby for Grayling to be made Brexit Secretary..
Leavers should lobby for Grayling to become the EU negotiator

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Remainers should lobby for Grayling to be made Brexit Secretary..
Leavers should lobby for Grayling to become the EU negotiator

I actually think that a third of Labour Party members [there is 600,000 of them] should join what is left of the Tory party and vote for Grayling as leader.
That'll be a laugh eh.

 

[Foxholer]

£33Million compensation to Eurotunnel from the tax-payer in a settlement over the no-deal Brexit Ferry contracts.

Let’s not talk about 2nd Referendum that’s not needed, what we do need is a General Election!

Won't help!

Might (can't use 'May'!) even mean that the Referendum result was ignored - for no good reason!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Won't help!

Might (can't use 'May'!) even mean that the Referendum result was ignored - for no good reason!

It would help if all parties said we are leaving and our plan is etc etc, that way you’re not having a 2nd Referendum, we definitely leave, and the Country backs the Party they wish to take us out and be in Government.

2 birds, 1 stone.

 

[Foxholer]

It would help if all parties said we are leaving and our plan is etc etc, that way you’re not having a 2nd Referendum, we definitely leave, and the Country backs the Party they wish to take us out and be in Government.

2 birds, 1 stone.

Hardly likely to get that sort of honesty from a political party!

And it's actually almost reasonable why not too - as if other (generally unforseen) circumstances change, they need to be able to change too.

 

[Old Skier]

It would help if all parties said we are leaving and our plan is etc etc, that way you’re not having a 2nd Referendum, we definitely leave, and the Country backs the Party they wish to take us out and be in Government.

2 birds, 1 stone.

A bit like the promise the two major parties made at the last election.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A bit like the promise the two major parties made at the last election.

Nothings changed........yet
Plus I don’t remember any Party telling us what they would negotiate.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Hardly likely to get that sort of honesty from a political party!

And it's actually almost reasonable why not too - as if other (generally unforseen) circumstances change, they need to be able to change too.

But Labour are possibly changing their position on a 2nd Referendum and people are condemning them(including me)