Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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bluewolf said:
And the MP's that were in Government? Or are currently still in Government?
Also, you are conveniently ignoring the fact that the comment was in the past tense. He has criticised those who have actively fought for Brexit but once they had it, slunk off into the background to lob insults and offer nothing constructive.. They've had 40 years to formulate and adapt a plan, and what do we get? Nothing. They've now conveniently forgotten all previous talk of a deal and spout meaningless platitudes about always wanting a "No Deal", despite never mentioning it before late 2018.

And with respect to your 2nd paragraph, Tusk may be being naive in using Twitter, but he's hardly the only one is he? Also, once again, he didn't state that anyone wanting Brexit deserves a place in hell.. read the actual words.. He CLEARLY stated that those who agitated for Brexit, but had absolutely no plan for how to leave deserved a special place in hell.. I'm guessing that he wasn't actually trying to get them sent to the firey pit, but who knows, he could be a God Botherer... If you're going to rant at his comment, then best that you take it in context...
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I think you will find that those who “agitated for Brexit” just thought we would leave. They had every idea on how we would leave.
 
What the Brexit voting uk citizens don't understand is that Mr Tusk and his chums are in charge and (in his world) you can have no say in the matter. Their arrogance is a direct sneer at 17million serfs having the audacity to say "enough!"

Trouble is, the UK Govt have tried to frustrate our exit, rather than lead it.... otherwise this would have been done and dusted 18 months ago,
 
Sweep said:
And yet no mention of the EU who have frustrated negotiations for 2.5 years. Left it to the UK to make all suggestions and then knocked them back and now refuse to negotiate even though they know our govt is not in a position to sign the WA as it stands.
And brexiteers did not slunk off into the background. They were sidelined.
Maybe the problems started the day after the referendum when someone said “ now we will go to Brussels to negotiate”. Maybe we should have just left and let the EU do the running. Maybe that’s what we should do now. Maybe we will end up doing that anyway. At least it would have saved us 2.5 years of nonsense.
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That would be one opinion.. No doubt shared by many.. Many would have a completely different opinion..
I am somewhat tickled by the fact that you lay absolutely all the blame in one place.. I'm 45 and have never yet seen a situation like this where blame could all be laid in one direction.. Never.. Still, there's a first for everything I suppose...
 
Sweep said:
What is childish is for someone in Tusk’s position to be making insulting comments that bear no resemblance to reality at a time like this.
Who needs to be reprimanded on the UK side of the negotiations? Or is it more “UK bad, EU good”?
If you are looking at this particular incident with a balanced view, I can’t really see how you can defend it. But I admire your efforts.
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And I admire your efforts to make this purely a EU issue.. You're laying all the blame exactly where you're being told to by the people who have failed us the most..
 
Oh damn.. I did start to respond to all the above posts, then got bored.. Disagree all you want.. I'm saying that both sides should be ashamed of themselves. I personally think that more blame sits with the Uk negotiating team, but that's my opinion and I don't really care if anyone shares it.. Some on here think that the blame only goes one way.. Strange to think that I'm being accused of bias towards the EU when I'm the one laying blame on both sides... Quite funny...
 
Apart from Tusk's stupid use of words I wonder if he and his cohorts in the EU have considered that the UK (has, can) is prepared to make future plans but Barnier explicity said the future had to wait until the separation was agreed : now all they 'say' they want is the UK's plans and that's what they are wanting for.

It is a bad example of brinkmanship and a rerun of their negotiating strategy used on Greece.
 
IanM said:
What the Brexit voting uk citizens don't understand is that Mr Tusk and his chums are in charge and (in his world) you can have no say in the matter. Their arrogance is a direct sneer at 17million serfs having the audacity to say "enough!"

Trouble is, the UK Govt have tried to frustrate our exit, rather than lead it.... otherwise this would have been done and dusted 18 months ago,
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Serfs...…….that is a strange word for someone who supports Brexit to use.

The trouble is.......the Leave campaign did not have a scooby about what to do once they had won.
Remember the faces of Johnson and Farage the morning after, they knew what was coming and like rats ran away from the sinking ship.

PS I thought the Speaker and Johanna put Peter Bone firmly back into his box at Westminster re 'Hell' comments. Sensitive flower indeed and if the cap fits wear it springs to mind.
 
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Tashyboy said:
Suprised no one had mentioned Mr Tusks comments “ of a special place in hell for those that pushed for Brexit without having any plans”.
Gonna jeep my comments on him
To myself but one word springs to mind.
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Does it begin with “c”?
 
bluewolf said:
That would be one opinion.. No doubt shared by many.. Many would have a completely different opinion..
I am somewhat tickled by the fact that you lay absolutely all the blame in one place.. I'm 45 and have never yet seen a situation like this where blame could all be laid in one direction.. Never.. Still, there's a first for everything I suppose...
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I am not laying all the blame at one place. Try reading my posts.
But in this instance the blame is all on Tusk.
 
bluewolf said:
And I admire your efforts to make this purely a EU issue.. You're laying all the blame exactly where you're being told to by the people who have failed us the most..
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Why don’t you just say who YOU think has failed us most and why.
And then decide if you will vote for them at the next election. Because you can vote to remove them and if enough of us agree, they will be removed.
And then decide if you approve of the actions of Tusk, Dunker et al and decide if you are going to vote for them at..... oh hang on.
 
bluewolf said:
Oh damn.. I did start to respond to all the above posts, then got bored.. Disagree all you want.. I'm saying that both sides should be ashamed of themselves. I personally think that more blame sits with the Uk negotiating team, but that's my opinion and I don't really care if anyone shares it.. Some on here think that the blame only goes one way.. Strange to think that I'm being accused of bias towards the EU when I'm the one laying blame on both sides... Quite funny...
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But you are not laying any blame on the EU at all. Probably because you got bored before you got to that bit.
The idea of a debate is to persuade those of a different opinion to change their mind or at least see things differently. I agree, it’s probably wasted effort now, but the point still remains. If you don’t care or are not interested in the opinion of others then posting is definitely a waste of time I should say.
I expect though that you don’t really want to admit that it’s hard to defend Tusk on this one.
 
Sweep said:
Why don’t you just say who YOU think has failed us most and why.
And then decide if you will vote for them at the next election. Because you can vote to remove them and if enough of us agree, they will be removed.
And then decide if you approve of the actions of Tusk, Dunker et al and decide if you are going to vote for them at..... oh hang on.
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I just wrote quite a lengthy response containing quite a lot of my thoughts on this matter.. Then I realised that I don't actually care what any on here think.. I've accepted that Brexit will happen. I've made plans for when it does. I'm not one of those likely to be overly badly hit if it goes very wrong.

I do still think that there should be an extension of Article 50 as we don't have time to put the legislation in place. However, I'm fairly sure this won't happen as quite a few of the most vocal Brexiteers in power appear quite concerned about something coming at the beginning of April..

Have away at it fellas ;)
 
Sweep said:
But you are not laying any blame on the EU at all. Probably because you got bored before you got to that bit.
The idea of a debate is to persuade those of a different opinion to change their mind or at least see things differently. I agree, it’s probably wasted effort now, but the point still remains. If you don’t care or are not interested in the opinion of others then posting is definitely a waste of time I should say.
I expect though that you don’t really want to admit that it’s hard to defend Tusk on this one.
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I don't need to defend him.. I agree with him.. I'm more surprised at how offended people on here are by it.. I don't like the obvious term, but people do appear to be very easily offended!
 
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