jp5
Q-School Graduate
That's not correct, it's what the British asked for as well once our red lines were in place. No point saying the EU has forced this on us - it takes two sides to agree to a deal.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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That's not correct, it's what the British asked for as well once our red lines were in place. No point saying the EU has forced this on us - it takes two sides to agree to a deal.
Colonel Bogey
Active member
Hi, mind if I join in on this (3). Could you let me know what Gove did as I never understood at the time and I followed 90% of it, and still am. They all need removing I think.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
If the 39bn settlement is to cover future commitments, such as pensions, why is it not payable over the next 30 years?
There's 585 pages to it, and we're splitting hairs on who wanted what? Having read it, some of it several times, I'd be very surprised if large elements of it are what the UK team asked for.
If you are interested in it, there are bits of it that are worth a read. The agricultural clauses within it will make your jaw drop. The UK won't have asked for them. Seriously, No Deal is better than having that clause. A brief example of some of the agricultural clauses - a monitoring body will be set up at the UK's expense that will report to the EU. All tariffs must be passed by the monitoring body, with the approval of the EU. The UK cannot set tariffs for other 3rd countries lower than those it sets for the EU.
There's loads of info out there. If you type in 'Gove stabs Boris' you will get numerous articles about it.
As an aside to that, Gove and his family used to be very close to Cameron and his family - family get-togethers, that sort of thing. That's worth a Google too. Last article I read on that, Cameron hasn't spoken to Gove since the run up to the vote.
Colonel Bogey
Active member
Also, after a discussion at work, we think May is playing for a no deal. She's come back with a bag of holly hocks which she knows no one will want, proved correct. She will not loose the party vote, no one else wants it at the moment LOL. She'll keep on pushing her rubbish idea, this will keep getting blocked then POOF ! NO DEAL by default. Job done!
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Because it was at the heart of the late campaigning by the politicians on the leave - it gave a message that if we left the EU our NHS could benefit with millions , it was a very smart clever marketing tactic that would have helped. People voted to leave because of it just like they did because of Sun headlines etc etc
It was a very subliminal message to people and people believed it and some people will expect the NHS to get a significant amount of extra funding when we leave
Colonel Bogey
Active member
so just coz Gove said boris is rubbish, that was stabbing him in the back???? Seriously? Boris must be a bit of a girl.
Colonel Bogey
Active member
And whilst I'm in here. Yvette Cooper should be removed my her constituents at the next election. She is a disgrace to democracy.
U
User62651
Guest
Time lines may well have crossed, sorry.
Re cake and eat it - If you are in the club but opt to leave that club you cannot expect to enjoy the perks of being in the club. Brexit was sold as being just that, leaving whilst retaining the best parts like free trade and ditching the worst, like our contribution, that is what I meant.
Agree we dont know how negotiations went, no insider knowledge. Not a case of siding, there are no winners in this, both sides lose imo, just frustrated with the pretty awful scenario we find ourselves in.
EU gets treated by the media and many here as one entity when referring to negotiation when it is 27 member states all having to align and agree that negotiating position, they seem to have done that pretty well as they must value being in EU but I appreciate few have had the same level of immigration as UK and few pay as big a contribution. Ultimately 27 v 1 is not a good position in any kind of negotiation though and 26 have rallied round Ireland wrt the hard border issue despite internal friction/issues between member states and some keener than others to help us out. Ireland never had power over UK but as part of the EU it does.
If the agreement is as bad as you say (have not read it in detail, just summary) can May ever get it through Commons? Seems like she'll probably lose again today. If she does it appears 2nd ref wont happen, brexit delay wont happen, general election won't happen so No Deal it must be then?
MPs will have to accept this May deal I think as she has run the clock down, don't really understand what she has proposed changing wrt the backstop but that still seems to be the main issue stopping it getting through.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
Aye written in big letters on the side of a double decker bus, very subliminal!😂😂
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
So the PM is actively trying to engineer a situation which the vast majority of independent analysis plus several CEOs of major organisations have said will be harmful for the country she governs and several major businesses in that country? It's one take on it but I can't help thinking that it may not play well for the tories election chances if they have that hanging around their necks. And might a slightly less tin foil hat explanation be that she knows a no deal will not be good for the country, but has a virtually impossible task to align factions on very different sides of the argument and MPs who fundamentally do not agree on how we should proceed to avoid a no deal?
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
It seems like many big businesses have been asked to egg the no deal situation by the treasury
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
He had offered to support Boris in his bid to become PM but changed his mind and stood himself.
Because it’s needed now to keep the gravy train running
U
User62651
Guest
According to FullFact -
The £39B bill is made up of:
- The UK’s contribution to EU annual budgets up to 2020;
- Payment of outstanding commitments; and
- Financing liabilities up to the end of 2020.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
If it wasn't for those negotiators, Mrs May, Nasty EU, George Soros, Project Fear, the treasury, Anna Soubry, meddling kids then we would have got away with it....
From memory, Gove agreed to back Boris in his bid to be leader. They were going to be bit of a dream team. Some people started to whisper in Gove's ear that Boris might not win the votes of the MP's but maybe he could. He then dropped Boris and stood against him. Any chance Boris had was then gone as his vote was split between him and Gove. Had Gove stood alongside him still maybe he would have won. He may not but they would have stood together. That is the stabbing in the back. Gove has apologised since and accepted his actions were not good.
The above may not be a perfect recolection but it gives the gist of what happened.
More or less it. Additionally, when Gove realised he wasn't going to win he plumped for supporting May and advising his supporters to do the same. Don't know what the exact protocol his but when someone withdraws from a leadership bid they usually make public their support for another candidate and recommend for his supporters to follow suit.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
If you say so.
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