Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Old Skier]

Sorry but two bites of the cherry ? We have had one vote on the future of the UK in the EU - just one. ( well apart from one decades ago )

One of the main manifesto pledges by the major political parties in the last election was that they would carry out the result of the referendum. I obviously have no idea who voted for who but if you voted for a major party then you have to accept their pledges.

 

[Hobbit]

Unworthy post perhaps but the labour voters were struggling most under Camerons austerity, they were given a chance to give Dave a kicking.....and guess what they took it. Deny all u like, everything Brexit is a Tory idea and a Tory problem, especially hard right Tories, has been for decades. All those Labour voters that gave Blair 3 GE wins never had an issue with EU, anti Tory protest is a good part of Brexit result, not all of it but a significant part. Brexit is primarily a right wing movement.

There's a bit of logic missing in your assumption, and it is only an assumption. If you're saying people voted along party lines, why didn't 100% of Tory voters vote Leave, or 100% of Labour voters vote Leave to give David Cameron a kicking?

And using your logic, perhaps you could explain that although both Labour and Tory voters voted Leave by a significant %, LibDems voted Remain by an even more significant %?

And the northeast of England is absolutely not far right. Its as Labour as you could possibly get, yet its the area of the country that most voted Leave. Numerous interviews shown on the local news very clearly indicated that the Leave vote was very much a case of "what has the EU ever done for me." And Leave was a far right decision was it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One of the main manifesto pledges by the major political parties was that they would carry out the result of the referendum. I obviously have no idea who voted for who but if you voted for a major party then you have to accept their pledges.

Sorry but that’s not having two votes on the UK being in the EU - we had one , that’s all not two just the one vote - all other votes were for the running of the UK so please don’t post as if people have had two says on the UKs participation in the EU

 

[Old Skier]

Sorry but that’s not having two votes on the UK being in the EU - we had one , that’s all not two just the one vote - all other votes were for the running of the UK so please don’t post as if people have had two says on the UKs participation in the EU

I think you'll find I can post what I think (IMO) if I feel it is pertinent. You can disagree and you can poo poo it but don't tell me how to post.

 

[Hobbit]

I think you'll find I can post what I think (IMO) if I feel it is pertinent. You can disagree and you can poo poo it but don't tell me how to post.

Well said.

But to be fair, under Article 13, EU regs, negative internet postings can be censored.

 

[SocketRocket]

Before the referendum, the last time we voted on EEC, EC, EU membership was 1975. Yet the “union” has changed beyond recognition since then. I am guessing you weren’t in favour of the 2016 referendum and are probably in the “we shouldn’t have been asked” camp. But now a vote from 2.5 years ago is out of date.
You should also realise that everyone had just messed about for the past 2.5 years. No progress has been made. If we vote leave again it will be the same and you will be saying the same thing in August 2021.

You are absolutely correct. I can only surmise the reason these people are behaving this way is due to so many having an 'Entitled' view on life. They believe they have an entitlement for their view to be upheld and democracy is an irrelevant inconvenience. Fortunately its not everyone from these generations but its enough to create this current political malaise that is sapping away the glue that held us together. I just wish people would be honest about it and instead of using weasel words to cover their real intentions just own up to what they are doing.

 

[BubbaP]

Do we need to become experts in GATT article 24 now?

 

[Hobbit]

Do we need to become experts in GATT article 24 now?

Its a nice idea but Clause 5 of GATT 24 says that agreements must be mutually beneficial and compensatory. Can you see the EU being equitable in a trade agreement with the UK?

 

[BubbaP]

When the Lib dems positioned themselves as the "pro EU" party for the 2017 GE I was surprised they didn't do better.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Can someone explain how it is democratic for one person, commons speaker John Bercow, to decide on which amendments can be voted on and which can't?

 

[Old Skier]

When the Lib dems positioned themselves as the "pro EU" party for the 2017 GE I was surprised they didn't do better.

Perhaps some people just vote same old same old and don't actually vote for what they want.

 

[Old Skier]

Can someone explain how it is democratic for one person, commons speaker John Bercow, to decide on which amendments can be voted on and which can't?

Those be the rules, well the ones he wants to follow.

 

[Hobbit]

Can someone explain how it is democratic for one person, commons speaker John Bercow, to decide on which amendments can be voted on and which can't?

He has a tough job. He can decide that an amendment is frivolous and should be dropped. Its something he can't win on. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[User62651]

You are absolutely correct. I can only surmise that the reason these people are behaving this way is due to the way so many people have an 'Entitled' view on life. They believe they have an entitlement for their view to be upheld and democracy is an irrelevant inconvenience. Fortunately its not everyone from these generations but its enough to create this current political malaise that is sapping away the glue that held us together. I just wish people would be honest about it and instead of using weasel words to cover their real intentions just own up to what they are doing.

Who are these people you criticise? May and her govt are the only ones dealing directly with the EU, she called article 50 and she has been negotiating, not any of us mere plebs, she didnt even get a deal together until Dec18 for MPs to vote on. Her poor deal (according to 118 tory Mps who are mainly Hard brexiters) stopped it, not us. Joe public cant do anything but protest but you'd deny us that in your kind of 'democracy' whilst the country plummets further toward chaos.

 

[drdel]

Shout louder and keep repeating... but it doesn’t change history the referendum was not fought with facts. We know more now, to deny a second referendum is undemocratic. I really don’t mind how many you have, I think you don’t want one because you’ll lose. Your worried that project fear has over powered project clueless.

I hope insults make you feel good. It might be a waste of time to suggest it but you might want to consider that both sides of the pro and anti EU votes were based on supositions about the future. Today there still no FACTS just subjective interpretations.

 

[Hobbit]

Who are these people you criticise? May and her govt are the only ones dealing directly with the EU, she called article 50 and she has been negotiating, not any of us mere plebs, she didnt even get a deal together until Dec18 for MPs to vote on. Her poor deal (according to 118 tory Mps who are mainly Hard brexiters) stopped it, not us. Joe public cant do anything but protest but you'd deny us that in your kind of 'democracy' whilst the country plummets further toward chaos.

There were 2 sides putting that deal together. Have you given a thought that maybe the EU negotiating team are also to blame for not agreeing the deal till Dec 18th?

 

[drdel]

Who are these people you criticise? May and her govt are the only ones dealing directly with the EU, she called article 50 and she has been negotiating, not any of us mere plebs, she didnt even get a deal together until Dec18 for MPs to vote on. Her poor deal (according to 118 tory Mps who are mainly Hard brexiters) stopped it, not us. Joe public cant do anything but protest but you'd deny us that in your kind of 'democracy' whilst the country plummets further toward chaos.

480+ MPs voted to trigger Article 50

 

[Old Skier]

480+ MPs voted to trigger Article 50

Don't let the facts get in the way of the right wing argument.

 

[SocketRocket]

Who are these people you criticise? May and her govt are the only ones dealing directly with the EU, she called article 50 and she has been negotiating, not any of us mere plebs, she didnt even get a deal together until Dec18 for MPs to vote on. Her poor deal (according to 118 tory Mps who are mainly Hard brexiters) stopped it, not us. Joe public cant do anything but protest but you'd deny us that in your kind of 'democracy' whilst the country plummets further toward chaos.

I refer to all who are looking to stop Brexit but not openly admitting their intentions, be that politicians or anyone else. If anyone wants to stop Brexit then have the backbone to admit thats what you want.

 

[SocketRocket]

He has a tough job. He can decide that an amendment is frivolous and should be dropped. Its something he can't win on. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

As long as he is seen to be neutral thats fine.