Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Fade and Die]

JLR were looking at expanding their business, taking their product manufacturing to higher levels without impacting current sites. They have opened new sites in the UK to build engines and future power systems.
The government has killed the car business their current tax system and the general bollocks regards diesel emissions has pretty much paralysed the car manufacturers and achieved nothing because we still have pre EU6 d powertrains on the roads with no penalties of note.
The government has also failed to implement an electrification strategy.. Tesla has worked harder, which is embarrassing!


Businesses make money, you reduce their profit opportunities and they will look elsewhere. But guess what, this filters to the local economy .. so all your little businesses, yes the ones who think they have freed the country and given us sovereign rule... well your buggered as well, because disposable incomes will vacate the area.

Oh and the argument we are being under cut by foreign workers taking lower pay... guess what they have honest value system, the slackers don’t! Sort yourselves out, and go back to school, if you want to be paid more.

Im guessing neither you or your family are in the construction industry? 🤔

 

[Doon frae Troon]

if in doubt blame brexit!

Do you know what else happened two years ago that caused a 20% devaluation of her spending pound.
If so please enlighten us.

 

[Hobbit]

JLR were looking at expanding their business, taking their product manufacturing to higher levels without impacting current sites. They have opened new sites in the UK to build engines and future power systems.
The government has killed the car business their current tax system and the general bollocks regards diesel emissions has pretty much paralysed the car manufacturers and achieved nothing because we still have pre EU6 d powertrains on the roads with no penalties of note.
The government has also failed to implement an electrification strategy.. Tesla has worked harder, which is embarrassing!


Businesses make money, you reduce their profit opportunities and they will look elsewhere. But guess what, this filters to the local economy .. so all your little businesses, yes the ones who think they have freed the country and given us sovereign rule... well your buggered as well, because disposable incomes will vacate the area.

Oh and the argument we are being under cut by foreign workers taking lower pay... guess what they have honest value system, the slackers don’t! Sort yourselves out, and go back to school, if you want to be paid more.

You do know how far behind the other car manufacturers JLR are, and the criticisms they received because of their woeful lack of investment compared to their competitors.

As for your comment on diesel emissions and the govt I assume you’re also aware that the lack of clarity from the EU on diesels has impacted on their development throughout the EU for over 2 years, with pretty much every manufacturer holding back on investment.

And I assume you are aware that car sales throughout the EU are down by almost 30% in 2018.

Surely your not blaming Brexit for all of the above.

As For electrification, have look at the implementation throughout the EU. You’ll find the U.K. is fairly close to the top of the league table, not the bottom.

But no need to let facts get in the way of your usual rubbish.

 

[harpo_72]

Im guessing neither you or your family are in the construction industry? 🤔

My father was, and he said don’t do it, so I did not

 

[harpo_72]

You do know how far behind the other car manufacturers JLR are, and the criticisms they received because of their woeful lack of investment compared to their competitors.

As for your comment on diesel emissions and the govt I assume you’re also aware that the lack of clarity from the EU on diesels has impacted on their development throughout the EU for over 2 years, with pretty much every manufacturer holding back on investment.

And I assume you are aware that car sales throughout the EU are down by almost 30% in 2018.

Surely your not blaming Brexit for all of the above.

As For electrification, have look at the implementation throughout the EU. You’ll find the U.K. is fairly close to the top of the league table, not the bottom.

But no need to let facts get in the way of your usual rubbish.

As per usual, an insult a use of an emoji ... followed by usual cobblers and self inflated egotistical statements. At no point did I mention Brexit, I have not used it as a reason.

Technology? Go on give us the low down on technology... because you are the oracle on all ... or just some over opinionated muppet who loves the sound of his own voice as he reads his own posts... 🤣

 

[Hobbit]

As per usual, an insult a use of an emoji ... followed by usual cobblers and self inflated egotistical statements. At no point did I mention Brexit, I have not used it as a reason.

Technology? Go on give us the low down on technology... because you are the oracle on all ... or just some over opinionated muppet who loves the sound of his own voice as he reads his own posts... 🤣

Google EU diesel policy. You find plenty of articles from the likes of the FT, The Guardian, Bloomberg, etc. Maybe then you'll be educated. Or you can carry on blowing hot air...

 

[harpo_72]

Google EU diesel policy. You find plenty of articles from the likes of the FT, The Guardian, Bloomberg, etc. Maybe then you'll be educated. Or you can carry on blowing hot air...

Second bite of the cherry and you still missed the point ... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🍩

 

[Hobbit]

Second bite of the cherry and you still missed the point ... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🍩

It would appear we both have. Most of my post refuted your rubbish about the govt's Diesel policy and its electrification policy. Looks like your good at just seeing what you want to see.

 

[drdel]

Second bite of the cherry and you still missed the point ... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 🍩

As an ex-owner of about 15 Range Rovers you might want to consider that most of their LR vehicles have seen major price hikes, very high depreciation rates, performed badly in reliability surveys, their Chinese sales have dropped like stone. Check out some to the JLR owner forums and you might understand that their customer service leaves room for significant improvement. Goes some way to explain that owners are voting with their feet.

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you know what else happened two years ago that caused a 20% devaluation of her spending pound.
If so please enlighten us.

That doesn't seem to have created mass unemployment, raging inflation or huge price increases.

 

[Foxholer]

A friend on Facebook shared the following post from a group called "Vote Leave, East Anglia".........

"All MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourselves. ... !

Read and BELIEVE! If you Have any doubts about leaving the Corrupt EU and its corrupt unelected Beurocrats of Brussels this will make you change your mind to #LEAVEMEANSLEAVE

What will actually happen if we stay in the EU and has already been agreed. Check it out if you wish:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future what the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons"

Blimey! I haven't fact checked any of the points raised, I have simply copied and pasted it, but if only all the Remain voters had known this information before the referendum. It would have been a landslide for Leave.

(Generally) Absolute twaddle!

Though there are a couple of points where there might be a tiny inkling of truth (though definitely Project fear!) or it's already 'how it is'.

 

[ColchesterFC]

(Generally) Absolute twaddle!

Though there are a couple of points where there might be a tiny inkling of truth (though definitely Project fear!) or it's already 'how it is'.

Aren't points 7, 8 and 9 actually true......

7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.

We currently don't make our own trade deals, we don't set our own trade tariffs and we don't set our own trade quotas. As a member of the EU they negotiate these on our behalf - I'm assuming with some kind of input from each member state. So technically all three of those points are true and if we stay in the EU we still won't do any of those things.

As for the rest I'm not sure "twaddle" is a strong enough term for what it all is. I'm sure there would have been something in the papers or on the news if the London stock exchange was moving to Frankfurt in 2020 or if we had to adopt the Euro and enter the Schengen zone by 2022. Unless it's all just one big conspiracy and they're keeping it from us. I'm putting my tinfoil hat back on to stop them reading my mind and knowing that I know what they are doing.

 

[bluewolf]

Aren't points 7, 8 and 9 actually true......

7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.

We currently don't make our own trade deals, we don't set our own trade tariffs and we don't set our own trade quotas. As a member of the EU they negotiate these on our behalf - I'm assuming with some kind of input from each member state. So technically all three of those points are true and if we stay in the EU we still won't do any of those things.

As for the rest I'm not sure "twaddle" is a strong enough term for what it all is. I'm sure there would have been something in the papers or on the news if the London stock exchange was moving to Frankfurt in 2020 or if we had to adopt the Euro and enter the Schengen zone by 2022. Unless it's all just one big conspiracy and they're keeping it from us. I'm putting my tinfoil hat back on to stop them reading my mind and knowing that I know what they are doing.

The sharing of crap like that on Facebook should be punishable by being locked in a giant room with all the other morons and subjected to every episode of Friends on repeat until you die.

 

[ColchesterFC]

The sharing of crap like that on Facebook should be punishable by being locked in a giant room with all the other morons and subjected to every episode of Friends on repeat until you die.

What about the sharing of stuff like that on a golf forum? What should that be punishable by?

Before you pass sentence Your Honour, I would like to express my deep regret at posting such rubbish and beg the court for forgiveness for my foolishness.

 

[harpo_72]

As an ex-owner of about 15 Range Rovers you might want to consider that most of their LR vehicles have seen major price hikes, very high depreciation rates, performed badly in reliability surveys, their Chinese sales have dropped like stone. Check out some to the JLR owner forums and you might understand that their customer service leaves room for significant improvement. Goes some way to explain that owners are voting with their feet.

This is not about JLR quality, and yes I am aware of the forums I run an F Pace ... and god it’s good.
Chinese sales are down across all brands, all price ranges.
You all missed the point... the tax system is not clearing out the old cars, in fact it’s benefits their owners.
Perhaps I should have separated the two statements.

JLR’s European build sites are business decisions made long before Brexit, you cannot just unfold a factory .. However a no deal will impact their UK sites, to claim it won’t is silly.

 

[harpo_72]

It would appear we both have. Most of my post refuted your rubbish about the govt's Diesel policy and its electrification policy. Looks like your good at just seeing what you want to see.

Your post was knee jerk reaction without understanding.. your showing your level ... again.🤡

 

[bluewolf]

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

Just a quick trawl, no doubt some of it might be open to some questioning.

Hey Brian, sorry I didn't get back to this. I've been doing a (tiny) bit of digging around this. Can you provide actual proof that EU Grants (not loans) were used to fund these moves?

 

[SatchFan]

Exclusive image of the UK leaving Europe.

 

[User62651]

News this AM carrying reports that young people ineligble to vote in EU ref of 2016 but eligible now to vote, of which there are more than 2 million, on consistent polling would vote to remain over leave by ratio of 7 to 1. Conversely expecting older remainers to move to leave is not expected, generational in that everyone younger than say 58 (taking into account childhood) has known nothing but being in Europe politically so don't yearn for days of yore with rose tinted specs on.

Some may say this is not relevant to what happended in 2016 but if that trend is correct then it's only going to be a matter of time before there is another referendum to rejoin the EU in whatever form that takes in future, is it not?
If Cameron could put it in his 2015 election manifesto then why can't any other party have a EU ref in/out pledge in theirs in the not so distant future too?

We know political parties are shallow enough to include anything they think will win votes so EU issue must keep coming up.
Fair chance the Conservative Party will have split on Europe by then too.

As soon as we leave, the rejoin movement will just grow legs and eventually will prevail, has to, hasn't it?

Brexit has actually strengthened and unified EU 27 if anything, not the opposite as leavers hoped.

 

[SocketRocket]

News this AM carrying reports that young people ineligble to vote in EU ref of 2016 but eligible now to vote, of which there are more than 2 million, on consistent polling would vote to remain over leave by ratio of 7 to 1. Conversely expecting older remainers to move to leave is not expected, generational in that everyone younger than say 58 (taking into account childhood) has known nothing but being in Europe politically so don't yearn for days of yore with rose tinted specs on.

Some may say this is not relevant to what happended in 2016 but if that trend is correct then it's only going to be a matter of time before there is another referendum to rejoin the EU in whatever form that takes in future, is it not?
If Cameron could put it in his 2015 election manifesto then why can't any other party have a EU ref in/out pledge in theirs in the not so distant future too?

We know political parties are shallow enough to include anything they think will win votes so EU issue must keep coming up.
Fair chance the Conservative Party will have split on Europe by then too.

As soon as we leave, the rejoin movement will just grow legs and eventually will prevail, has to, hasn't it?

Brexit has actually strengthened and unified EU 27 if anything, not the opposite as leavers hoped.

If my aunty had a willy she would be my uncle.