Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Dando]

There is part of one sentence in there that I think people shouldn't lose sight of. "...if that trend is correct..." It may be educated speculation but its still only speculation.

The number and percentages have been done to death in the last 2.5 years, along with those at GE's. There's a trend there that is worth noting too. When its close, it can't be predicted with any certainty.

I’m sure it would’ve been dismissed if it had shown those new voters favouring leave

 

[SocketRocket]

It was carried on the tv news this morning, the polling is factual.

It must be factual if it was on the news. I saw the guy who was promoting this on Sky News this morning and he said it was a theory and not fact. Funny though, my ballot paper didnt ask me how old I was.

 

[Hobbit]

So, we're in the middle of the biggest political crudstorm in decades, all because the people were unhappy with the political classes, and you're claiming that people being unhappy doesn't result in political crudstorms?

Sorry but you've totally lost me. Maybe I didn't understand where you were coming from in post 4268, but I definitely don't understand the above.

First of all, whats a political crud storm? If, using the UK's parliament as an example, its in a mess for a number of reasons. A minority govt. The party in power having too many chiefs. The opposition party not articulating exactly where it stands on a significant number of issues.

If you're referring to Brussels, it seems slow to wake up on a number of issues but political crud storm?

 

[Fade and Die]

News this AM carrying reports that young people ineligble to vote in EU ref of 2016 but eligible now to vote, of which there are more than 2 million, on consistent polling would vote to remain over leave by ratio of 7 to 1. Conversely expecting older remainers to move to leave is not expected, generational in that everyone younger than say 58 (taking into account childhood) has known nothing but being in Europe politically so don't yearn for days of yore with rose tinted specs on.

Some may say this is not relevant to what happended in 2016 but if that trend is correct then it's only going to be a matter of time before there is another referendum to rejoin the EU in whatever form that takes in future, is it not?
If Cameron could put it in his 2015 election manifesto then why can't any other party have a EU ref in/out pledge in theirs in the not so distant future too?

We know political parties are shallow enough to include anything they think will win votes so EU issue must keep coming up.
Fair chance the Conservative Party will have split on Europe by then too.

As soon as we leave, the rejoin movement will just grow legs and eventually will prevail, has to, hasn't it?

Brexit has actually strengthened and unified EU 27 if anything, not the opposite as leavers hoped.

Also i wouldn’t get your hopes up too much if you are relying on the young vote to save your cause, they are notorious layabouts. 🛌

 

[Foxholer]

So, we're in the middle of the biggest political crudstorm in decades, all because the people were unhappy with the political classes, and you're claiming that people being unhappy doesn't result in political crudstorms?

Two separate crudstorms imo. Though 'associated' (not truly 'connected' imo) by the causes of the unhappiness happening together and involving 'the political classes'.

 

[SocketRocket]

So, we're in the middle of the biggest political crudstorm in decades, all because the people were unhappy with the political classes, and you're claiming that people being unhappy doesn't result in political crudstorms?

Were in the crudstorm because many people on the losing side of the vote refuse to accept they lost and most of our politicians are playing mind games rather than making Brexit a success.

 

[User62651]

Also i wouldn’t get your hopes up too much if you are relying on the young vote to save your cause, they are notorious layabouts. 🛌

Charming view of our young people. We were all young once, confident I was neither a layabout or notorious at the time, were you?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Were in the crudstorm because many people on the losing side of the vote refuse to accept they lost and most of our politicians are playing mind games rather than making Brexit a success.

How exactly can people who voted to stay be blamed what the actions of the government and their Brexit plans - everything that is happening right now is a consequence of voting to leave - what exactly is it you are blaming people who voted to stay for ?

 

[Fade and Die]

Charming view of our young people. We were all young once, confident I was neither a layabout or notorious at the time, were you?

Absolutely not but only 36 per cent of people in the 18 – 24 year old category voted in the EU referendum. Easily the lowest turnout of any age group.

 

[bluewolf]

Were in the crudstorm because many people on the losing side of the vote refuse to accept they lost and most of our politicians are playing mind games rather than making Brexit a success.

No, were in a crudstorm because no one knew how to leave before voting for it. Article 50 should never have been sent before there was a consensus on what was wanted. We're a laughing stock because we've voted for something without ever actually getting agreement on what it actually was.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Were in the crudstorm because many people on the losing side of the vote refuse to accept they lost and most of our politicians are playing mind games rather than making Brexit a success.

We’re in this position because Cameron was weak & called a referendum straight away, rather than allowing the civil servants time to actually learn the rules of what it all means. He could have waited.

Then both sides lied and cheated in the build up to the referendum. But leave did it better. The remain campaign was pathetic!
Following that Cameron chickened out & quit. May became pm, despite historically being a racist, intolerant bigot as Home Secretary.
She turned out, unsurprisingly, to be useless & parliament joined her in being incompetent.
She chose 3 brexit secretaries who, unbelievably, turned out to be even more useless than her.

So to blame are:Cameron, May, Davis et al and the opposition!

 

[Blue in Munich]

No, were in a crudstorm because no one knew how to leave before voting for it. Article 50 should never have been sent before there was a consensus on what was wanted. We're a laughing stock because we've voted for something without ever actually getting agreement on what it actually was.

Sorry but we knew what we were voting for; either to Remain in, or Leave, the EU; the referendum didn't ask us about how we leave. Once the referendum result was in any further screw ups such as triggering Article 50 without a coherent plan in place and the farce that was the negotiations are squarely on the politicians.

 

[Blue in Munich]

We’re in this position because Cameron was weak & called a referendum straight away, rather than allowing the civil servants time to actually learn the rules of what it all means. He could have waited.

Then both sides lied and cheated in the build up to the referendum. But leave did it better. The remain campaign was pathetic!
Following that Cameron chickened out & quit. May became pm, despite historically being a racist, intolerant bigot as Home Secretary.
She turned out, unsurprisingly, to be useless & parliament joined her in being incompetent.
She chose 3 brexit secretaries who, unbelievably, turned out to be even more useless than her.

So to blame are:Cameron, May, Davis et al and the opposition!

Useless or undermined?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I’d say useless.
But if undermined, by who?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I’d say useless.
But if undermined, by who?

Primarily May, a resolute Remainer.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Primarily May, a resolute Remainer.

she seems intent on leaving to me

 

[Fade and Die]

Sorry but we knew what we were voting for; either to Remain in, or Leave, the EU; the referendum didn't ask us about how we leave. Once the referendum result was in any further screw ups such as triggering Article 50 without a coherent plan in place and the farce that was the negotiations are squarely on the politicians.

Funny how I’ve never heard a single Leave voter complain about being misled and demanding another vote! Only whining hard done by Remainers who seem outraged on our behalf!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Funny how I’ve never heard a single Leave voter complain about being misled and demanding another vote! Only whining hard done by Remainers who seem outraged on our behalf!

I’m not outraged on your behalf, it’s on my own behalf!

 

[Blue in Munich]

she seems intent on leaving to me

She's showing a face that she's intent on leaving; I have no doubt that she will be doing all she can to keep us in.

 

[Fade and Die]

I’m not outraged on your behalf, it’s on my own behalf!

Why?