Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
I thought our negotiating position was to drop our trousers, bend over the table and ask them not to spank us too hard.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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I thought our negotiating position was to drop our trousers, bend over the table and ask them not to spank us too hard.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
I think we would be happy with a spanking, its the strap on accessories we need to worry about.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Garmin watch ?
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
More like Garmin truswing.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Garmin Backstop
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Aye Senior moment
...my daughter actually played against Mhari McKay in the British girls....lost at the 19th.
Mhari actually moved on to the American tour and had quite a few successful years, so definitely a leaver.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Disturbing stuff.
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
No, thats not at all what I am saying.
The EU has negotiated primarily from a point of trying the protect their project, while they should be trying to get the best deal for the EU and primarily the people of the EU. They have put the EU project first. Any government that puts its project, its grand plan before the people it represents is not governing for its electorate, it’s real reason for being.
In the case of the EU of course it’s stretching a point to call the people their electorate as those calling the tune aren’t directly elected, but you get my point. Furthermore their grand plan is often not communicated to their people until it absolutely has to be. Remember we signed up for a trade deal when federalism was always planned. Remember we were told an EU army was nonsense before the referendum, and yet now...
Remember all the treaties that have to be modified, rewritten or clarified to get through because some reject them. You might call it progress. I’d say the people of those countries were surprised by these treaties and didn’t like the look of them. And note, they are always narrowly rejected or accepted. They always cause division. When they get to it, the EU army one is going to be a corker - if they let the people vote on it.
Anyway, I digress. My point is that this is typical EU. Their project is more important to them than their people they are supposed to represent. They feel they must protect it at all costs. Now I am willing to accept that in your view protecting the project is protecting the people. I argue that is not necessarily the case. Many, many jobs in the EU rely on trade with the UK. If you worked in maybe the tourist trade in Spain, or the BMW factory where 1/7th of its produce comes here. What if your job and your families financial well-being depended on the EU cutting a good deal with the UK? Would you still be saying that the EU should put their project first? What if there is no deal? How likely is it you going to get another job, with unemployment at high levels? I know the cause of young people is close to your heart. What chances of another job when youth unemployment is at ridiculous levels?
Both parties should accept the UK is leaving and be negotiating for the best outcome for all, but that is not what is happening. I fully accept the EU should not let the UK have its cake and eat it and we shouldn’t expect that. But there is a whole lot of ground between the two points and as yet none of this has been explored.
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
Never liked that people who wanted to remain in the EU were in charge of the deal and that a lot of the people who wanted to leave have just run away. Think they realised it was a right poison chalice job and I bet they will reappear after the deal is done.
After thinking about it, I think it is now a must that once the 'deal' has been finalised we the public have the final say, about stay in the EU or come out with No deal(as any deal agreed with never be good enough). Still not sure if I would change my vote from last time or not, as not liked what I have seen, also I think the turn out would be much higher which would be a good thing.
After thinking about it, I think it is now a must that once the 'deal' has been finalised we the public have the final say, about stay in the EU or come out with No deal(as any deal agreed with never be good enough). Still not sure if I would change my vote from last time or not, as not liked what I have seen, also I think the turn out would be much higher which would be a good thing.
I don't necessarily agree with this. Boris wanted to be leader but pulled out when he was told he didn't have enough MP's to back him. Gove stayed in the race and was mullered. Davies, Johnson et al resigned from their positions over time because May was not giving them the Brexit they wanted. As part of the cabinet they have to stand with May and defend her policy. When they realised it was indefensable to them they left. They would argue that they tried to change the deal but TM would not have it. Davies and Raab were largely bypassed by TM and her civil servants by all account. By leaving the cabinet they can speak freely about the deal and the problems with it.
I'm no fan of any of the above but if they are not allowed to push for the Brexit that they fought for then I am not sure that they can stay by the deal TM made with any credibility.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
But are they behaving that way for their own agenda or the good of the Country?
Because every politician from every possible political persuasion with any view on the EU are assuring us THEY have the Countries best interest at heart.
So either they are lying or whatever and with anybody the Country will be fine!
IanM
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May defeated... DUP withdraw support....general election.....Corbyn PM....Brexit cancelled. As predicted at the start of the original thread. but means it would be achieved by wasnt clear. May retires with handsome "gratuity" from Brussels. (remember how Ted Heath could suddenly afford Morning Cloud and the house by the Cathedral in Salisbury! 
)
Corbyn PM... oh dear. A former colleague voted Remain in the Ref as he predicted the instability caused would result in the evil git in No 10. This will make the last 2 years look like a Sunday School outing!
) Corbyn PM... oh dear. A former colleague voted Remain in the Ref as he predicted the instability caused would result in the evil git in No 10. This will make the last 2 years look like a Sunday School outing!
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
No I think they ran away and took the easy option out by pulling out or resigning and letting the wrong deal being done, especially if they thought they could have done better for the UK. As no deal or remaining in the EU were always the most likely situations to unfold with a remainer leading the deal. TM should have gone as well as part of that process very early on. I am someone who mind was saying remain but heart was saying leave, so fairly natural but actually voted remain.
This is our country and they are damaging it now and certainly for the short/medium term. Have only seen businesses being adversely affected by this, with bigger businesses pulling funding from projects in the UK and certainly not any pluses as yet from a business point of view.
Ultimately TM is the PM though and what she say goes. How long do you bang your head against a wall before you say enough is enough? She has shown quite clearly in recent weeks that she does not listen to what is being said to her.
In their eyes they are doing the best for the country. Their agenda is right for the country as they see it. Lots of agenda's though, if there wasn't we would not have different political parties, candidates etc
I don't think any of them seek to deliberately cause damage.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
I don’t remember Thatcher being one to listen and do what others wanted, and the Torres have always lauded her for that approach.
How did that end for her when she failed to listen over the Poll Tax?
D
Deleted member 16999
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Even if they know their actions will cause damage?
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
I doubt very much the DUP will cause a GE. The last person they want to see in No.10 is Corbyn.May defeated... DUP withdraw support....general election.....Corbyn PM....Brexit cancelled. As predicted at the start of the original thread. but means it would be achieved by wasnt clear. May retires with handsome "gratuity" from Brussels. (remember how Ted Heath could suddenly afford Morning Cloud and the house by the Cathedral in Salisbury!
Corbyn PM... oh dear. A former colleague voted Remain in the Ref as he predicted the instability caused would result in the evil git in No 10. This will make the last 2 years look like a Sunday School outing!
Whoever governs (apart from the Lib Dem’s and that’s not going to happen) has a big headache. They don’t actually want to leave but are conflicted because they know they can’t go against the referendum result. The honest truth is the mainstream political parties are now out of touch with the people they represent. That is actually why we are in this mess now.
So, whoever governs will try to fudge it, just like May tried to.
For all their bleating, Labour has no realistic or workable policy on Brexit. For example, a Labour woman on TV this morning said that Labour’s policy was not the Single Market or Customs Union but a new Customs Union and single market deal. Laughable.
Interestingly, the spin doctors might be taking a different view on this. The simplest thing to do (where there are no simple answers) would be to tell the EU we are off. Be the strong leader everyone wants. Be the hero. Watch them come running. You are a hero putting all those Johnny foreigners in their place. And if they don’t or if we can’t reach a deal, leave. After all, that is what the electorate told you to do. You are the torchbearer for democracy in one of the worlds great democracies. Then, make the most of the new opportunities. If you are successful you are brilliant. If not, it’s hardly your fault. You were just doing what the people instructed. You have the best excuse in history for messing up. A free ride.
Far better than pretending to leave but fudging it or manipulating the situation so that Brexit doesn’t happen at all. People see through that pretty quickly, as we have already found.
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
The Poll Tax is a very good analogy and has a lot of parallels to the Brexit situation today.
The Community Charge was included in the 1987 Conservative manifesto upon which they won the election. A whole series of demonstrations and riots, mainly organised by the militant tendency, caused it to be withdrawn. You could argue quite strongly that the protests went against the stated democratic will of the people. It was the protests that got it overturned, much like what is being attempted today albeit much more calmly... for now.
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