harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
I’d wait 10 yrs to hard exit, make sure I have all the bits I need to have the power economy I require.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
I've edited one word in your post as no one actually knows what will happen, only what certain predictions and forecasts are saying and with the forecasts coming from the same people/positions that the previously dire predictions came from these are too easily dismissed as project fear.
I think that it's too close to call what the result would be. It would probably come down to how many people bothered to vote or if it was raining on referendum day. But if it were to be rerun would that be the end of the matter? If Leave won again would that be it and we'd be out straight away? If remain won there would be calls for a further referendum especially if the result was close? I've heard Blair's call for a second referendum but that both sides should agree beforehand that it was binding and the end of the matter. I think that everyone thought that the first referendum was binding and would be the end of the matter but I guess that was before the result was in favour of leaving.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
That argument is hacknied and irrelevant. Can you not recall the prophecies of doom from Osborne Cameron, The BOE, the IMF, Obama etc on the perils that would become us the moment we voted leave. It disingenuous to suggest leave voters only voted based on what was painted on the side of a bus. People are not stupid and it was explained clearly what leaving the EU meant, we all had a booklet pushed through out letterboxes explaining it meant leaving the customs union and single market, it told us if we voted leave the government would honour our decision.
How can they be charged with fraud? 😂😂😂
Remember that the remainers only exaggerated!
That's not a bad point. Until the UK has left, and the £350m hasn't been given to the NHS just what act of fraud have they committed? Now if it was George Osbourne, who predicted emergency budgets etc, yes.
But that money wasn’t promised to the NHS!
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Cos it ain’t true... 🙊
chrisd
Major Champion
I'm absolutely sure that even Farage agreed that the NHS money was over estimated long before the referendum took place
That’s no basis to charge someone with fraud
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
I have got to the point of having absolutely no idea how a second vote would go Phil. You would have people like Brian's friend, a staunch Remainer but who would vote Leave because of her respect for the democratic process. You'd have people like me who believe Leave is the correct route to take but who now have so little confidence in our leaders' abilities to make it happen that I would consider Remain a safer option. So many variables.
If forced I'd say Remain would get it, as all those who didn't bother to vote last time would find they had a raincoat & come out to play, whilst dispirited Leave voters would give up in disgust & stay in. But that doesn't account for those so incensed by our leaders' efforts to ignore the first result that they then vote Leave.
The only thing that keeps coming into my head watching this shambles unfold is the line from the German guest in Fawlty Towers wondering how the English ever won a war...
Reemul
Head Pro
If we have another referendum and we got a 60/40 remain those 40% would never accept the vote, if we think politics cannot fall further we are much mistaken, trust in politicians would fall through the floor even further.
What maybe should happen is Labour call a vote of no confidence and say they will run a general election with a view to overturning Brexit.
You then get 2 choices vote conservative and get an exit or vote labour and get to remain, However in my opinion what we get is a hung parliament again.
The reality is the brexit deal will not get voted through. So what do we do, no one wants a no deal leave, half don't want a second referendum but those that lost think they can now win so do want one. Everybody wanted a deal that was workable while understanding it wouldn't be the best we could get, We needed someone 2 years ago that really believed in Brexit as a positive move and went in with an aggressive and clear set of goals, we did not get that, we got wishy washy willy nilly bollocks that has left us pretty much screwed.
It is too late to renegotiate so we have 3 options.
1. Another referendum
2. No Deal
3. The backstop deal.
Number 1 should be out, it will cause even more lasting damage than we are already having. Lets have a vote on numbers 2 or 3. Make it really clear what No deal means and what the backstop deal means. You make it clear a 50.1% is a win and let everyone choose.
I voted leave originally but would now vote remain but still don't want another referendum, while some may have changed their minds many will not and if will further dilute our political system and the trust in it. I still believe in the EU as a trading block / system but not as an integrated large scale state that the EU is becoming.
What maybe should happen is Labour call a vote of no confidence and say they will run a general election with a view to overturning Brexit.
You then get 2 choices vote conservative and get an exit or vote labour and get to remain, However in my opinion what we get is a hung parliament again.
The reality is the brexit deal will not get voted through. So what do we do, no one wants a no deal leave, half don't want a second referendum but those that lost think they can now win so do want one. Everybody wanted a deal that was workable while understanding it wouldn't be the best we could get, We needed someone 2 years ago that really believed in Brexit as a positive move and went in with an aggressive and clear set of goals, we did not get that, we got wishy washy willy nilly bollocks that has left us pretty much screwed.
It is too late to renegotiate so we have 3 options.
1. Another referendum
2. No Deal
3. The backstop deal.
Number 1 should be out, it will cause even more lasting damage than we are already having. Lets have a vote on numbers 2 or 3. Make it really clear what No deal means and what the backstop deal means. You make it clear a 50.1% is a win and let everyone choose.
I voted leave originally but would now vote remain but still don't want another referendum, while some may have changed their minds many will not and if will further dilute our political system and the trust in it. I still believe in the EU as a trading block / system but not as an integrated large scale state that the EU is becoming.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Can I ask why the change? No agenda, just curious.
Jamesbrown
Head Pro
I’m not informed of what will happen with either outcomes? Has somebody got a crystal ball I didn’t know about?
Same result.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Disception and personal gain ?? ðŸ§
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
What a complete waste of a day on nothing more than Tory party theatrics. They should all be charged with contempt.
Theres no chance of her getting that deal through Parliment though.
Theres no chance of her getting that deal through Parliment though.
Reemul
Head Pro
I think having all the facts the downsides are much bigger than the upsides in both the short and medium term. We needed to focus more on the short and medium term future rather than the right now.
Living on the south coast in an affluent area it is easy to think we can manage this but for many parts of the country leaving could be pretty disastrous and peoples lively hoods and futures are more important.
Immigration is now a worldwide issue and will get more focus on solutions when for a time it felt like it was only us.
Centralisation is an issue but being involved in it and working against it is better than some half assed half in half out rubbish it looks like we could end up with.
Personally i believe if we could have an EU trading bloc partnership only, the majority of people would be more than happy with it, in fact it would walk a vote, unfortunately that is not what the EU is now about.
Really it's a mess, in has plenty going for it and out could but with no guarantees and you end up with a near 50/50 split in what to do.
Additionally I feel leaving would work if we have a government that really believed in leaving but we don't and I have little faith that either party would manage the leaving well enough to make it work, in fact I fear they are going to screw it up so badly we are going to be much worse off than we should be make remain the rational choice as the best outcome for the majority of the people.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Thank you. I’m not so sure I agree with your first paragraph but the last 4 I could have written myself; pretty much sums up my thinking.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Remember 165 of Mays supporters in the no confidence vote were on the government payroll.
They would have been voting for the sack from their 'extra' job if they had not supported her.
165 seems like a very big number to me,
They would have been voting for the sack from their 'extra' job if they had not supported her.
165 seems like a very big number to me,
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
165?? i thought it was 117?
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