Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[User62651]

Highlight of yesterday was the Labour MP seeing Bercow looking away, makes a beeline for the despatch box, grabs the mace like it was a schoolboy dare, walks boldly off taking verbal pelters then thinking "cripes what do I do now? Ok you can have it back then". Tory ladies on left having a bit of a snigger. Bit pointless as a means of protest isn't it?

Stop that Man.

 

[Jacko_G]

I have no inclination anymore to even find out what is what?

What advantages do we get from staying or leaving? Why is Europe so against us leaving?

I went for a deep tissue massage last week and I didn't get the usual person, I got an eastern European female who explained to me that she and her fellow workers were getting the blame for Britain wanting to leave the EU. She gave my back and shoulders one hell of a pounding and I don't mind admitting I cried out when she attacked my left calf. I was in agony for about two days but boy I feel good now. Will be asking for her again.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Whilst I don’t disagree with the comments on here this morning regarding our disgust towards parliament and the way they have handled this, in the cold light of day we are actually where we were right at the start. There is an impasse. We have stalemate. Mainly because both sides have been negotiating disingenuously. The EU from the point of protecting and maintaining their project, the UK from the point of not really wanting to go and trying to make the best fudge out of it. This is not what either side should have been doing and we are where we are as a result.
The situation, albeit of the UK governments own making by chasing a deal no-one was ever going to accept, is not helped by big-wigs in the EU reverting to their intransigence position by saying things like “so now you want to renegotiate your own proposal” and “there is no room for renegotiation” before Mrs May has even arrived for a chat. This is not how you arrive at a deal that works for both parties. It’s also arrogant.

So, as we are back to where we started I believe Mrs May’s only option is to do what she and the UK negotiators should have done in the first place. Inform the EU to find a deal or we will have to leave in 3 months time with no deal. As things stand, that is actually the truth of the matter. As regrettable as this may be Mrs May would only be carrying out the result of the referendum. This is her fall back position. In truth this was always the position from the start. We were just too soft and diplomatic to put it that way, but time has now run out. She would only be doing what the EU have done all along and batted it back to the other side. Because the EU big wig was right in one sense. It was our proposal. We are the only ones who seem to have made any proposals.
The EU would then have a choice. If they choose to let us go with no deal then we would know what the position was all along. More likely, with such a big trade deficit and 39billion on the table they would renegotiate and quick.
This should all have happened two years ago of course, but we are where we are and it seems right now this is the only option left for the PM.

I'm just genuinely curious over why this is disingenuous? It was crystal clear to anyone that this is what they would do and no one can show shock or surprise or have expected them to do anything differently. They obviously want to ensure no one else follows our lead (and to be honest I think we have done that for them anyway with the balls up we are making of it). Yes some may feel that this is difficult to deal with but I do not see why this is disingenuous of them or some kind of blame is being apportioned to them for doing this, it is one of the very few sure fire things that we knew would happen.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Good question.
As a reluctant leaver I wanted the best deal we could arrive at for both sides in terms of trade but accepted that we had to be prepared to leave with no deal. I never believed we could have our cake and eat it and never believed that no deal would be catastrophic.
If the EU was still a trading deal I wouldn’t have voted to leave, but sadly it’s much more than that. It needs reform but incapable of it. I didn’t believe the trade deal was worth all what I see as the bad stuff that comes with EU membership and so voted to leave.
I believed it was in both sides best interests to do a deal on trade and I was hopeful this would happen, but I wanted to leave even if it didn’t. I am disappointed that all we have talked about so far is anything but trade.

Like most I think, my view hasn’t changed.

Cheers, the reason for asking was prompted by yesterday’s embarrassment in the HoC, listening and watching I really believe there are Tory MP’s who want a No Deal and nothing else and I can’t see them voting for any other alternative.
To me like you’ve said, we have to be prepared for No Deal, but it can’t and couldn’t of been what the majority actually expected.

 

[MegaSteve]

Highlight of yesterday was the Labour MP seeing Bercow looking away, makes a beeline for the despatch box, grabs the mace like it was a schoolboy dare, walks boldly off taking verbal pelters then thinking "cripes what do I do now? Ok you can have it back then". Tory ladies on left having a bit of a snigger. Bit pointless as a means of protest isn't it?

Stop that Man.

Fairly certain it was pre-planned as there was a member of staff ready and waiting to take it off his hands...

 

[User62651]

Fairly certain it was pre-planned as there was a member of staff ready and waiting to take it off his hands...

They wouldn't allow that to go off if they knew, pre-planned by the culprit maybe. Only been done a handful of times I think.
He should have held it aloft and roared for better effect.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Fairly certain it was pre-planned as there was a member of staff ready and waiting to take it off his hands...

My mate is one of the Staff, 2 are always in that area.

 

[Sweep]

I'm just genuinely curious over why this is disingenuous? It was crystal clear to anyone that this is what they would do and no one can show shock or surprise or have expected them to do anything differently. They obviously want to ensure no one else follows our lead (and to be honest I think we have done that for them anyway with the balls up we are making of it). Yes some may feel that this is difficult to deal with but I do not see why this is disingenuous of them or some kind of blame is being apportioned to them for doing this, it is one of the very few sure fire things that we knew would happen.

If I was from another EU country and therefore an “innocent bystander” to all this, I would want the EU to do the best deal for me and the other 26 nations, not what was good for the EU project. I would expect my union government to put me and the other 26 nations first. That is what a government should do. Not sideline us in favour of a grand plan.
That is why it’s disingenuous. I agree it was only to be expected because this is the way the EU works. It has other priorities than its people, but because we could expect it doesn’t mean it’s right.

 

[Sweep]

They wouldn't allow that to go off if they knew, pre-planned by the culprit maybe. Only been done a handful of times I think.
He should have held it aloft and roared for better effect.

Apparently after being barred for the day, he and his mates went off to the pub to celebrate. Most strange.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Can I ask a genuine question to you and all those that voted leave?
Did you want a “no deal” scenario when you voted leave?
Or
Did you want some sort of “deal” when you voted leave?

I ideally wanted to leave on good terms Paul, preferably with a deal that suited both sides. I don’t have anything against any Europeans personally but I have a deep rooted suspicion of the EU and the way it does business, and I have a nasty feeling that when the whole house of cards does come tumbling down we will suffer a lot more financially than we might if we get out. If no deal was the best deal I’d take it, but a negotiated deal so that the health benefits were kept and our legal immigrants on whom we rely and who contribute to the fabric of our society knew they were welcome and valued was my preference.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Apparently after being barred for the day, he and his mates went off to the pub to celebrate. Most strange.

Good excuse to get away from May's constant repetitive whining.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Cheers, the reason for asking was prompted by yesterday’s embarrassment in the HoC, listening and watching I really believe there are Tory MP’s who want a No Deal and nothing else and I can’t see them voting for any other alternative.
To me like you’ve said, we have to be prepared for No Deal, but it can’t and couldn’t of been what the majority actually expected.

I think the DUP and SNP would both be delighted with a cliff edge Brexit, the funny part is for two entirely different reasons.

 

[HughJars]

If I was from another EU country and therefore an “innocent bystander” to all this, I would want the EU to do the best deal for me and the other 26 nations, not what was good for the EU project. I would expect my union government to put me and the other 26 nations first. That is what a government should do. Not sideline us in favour of a grand plan.
That is why it’s disingenuous. I agree it was only to be expected because this is the way the EU works. It has other priorities than its people, but because we could expect it doesn’t mean it’s right.

But that's what they are doing, by refusing to (largely) dilute FoM etc, they are protecting the remaining citizens of the EU. There's no ulterior motive there, the leavers were well warned that the EU would look after the EU first and foremost because why on earth wouldn;t they. You can;t then blame them for doing exactly that.

 

[HughJars]

I think the DUP and SNP would both be delighted with a cliff edge Brexit, the funny part is for two entirely different reasons.

I admit to finding this partl rather amusing

The SNP want Brexit to fail because they've always backed the EU, but at the least they want the favourable terms that have been given to NI if it does go ahead, because they haven't been listened to in the slightest so far, unlike.....

The DUP, who've had the PMs ear throughout, now want brexit to fail because they **have** been given favourable terms which isn't what they wanted at all

 

[HughJars]

Oh christ, what an embarrassment, can't get out of her own car

https://twitter.com/x/status/1072463780007809024

 

[ColchesterFC]

Oh christ, what an embarrassment, can't get out of her own car

https://twitter.com/x/status/1072463780007809024

It's an EU car. No matter how hard you try it's impossible to actually get out of it.

 

[Dando]

It's an EU car. No matter how hard you try it's impossible to actually get out of it.

did she have to pay a large fee before they tried to open the door

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh christ, what an embarrassment, can't get out of her own car

https://twitter.com/x/status/1072463780007809024

Is that really the level the news has got to now and you are using it as a judgement against her because a car lock didn’t work

This is the exact sort of thing people are sick off now - people just looking for any small reason to snipe away and it’s fuelled even more by the gutter media

Sky News were pathetic to tweet about it and you were even more so to jump on it and then point fingers at her for it

 

[User62651]

Is that really the level the news has got to now and you are using it as a judgement against her because a car lock didn’t work

This is the exact sort of thing people are sick off now - people just looking for any small reason to snipe away and it’s fuelled even more by the gutter media

Sky News were pathetic to tweet about it and you were even more so to jump on it and then point fingers at her for it

Come on LP, it is a little funny given the general enormity of the circumstances. Country's futures are at stake and someone's put the child locks on. If you can't laugh what can you do?

 

[jp5]

It appears that Theresa May told the EU she was pulling the vote before she told her cabinet. Not a good look if true.