Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

Is anyone aware of a rational response as to why this isn't practicable?

It's full of sweeping statements like 'A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. So we accept all EU product standards from now on without having any say in developing them, we just take what they say?

Also we have 'no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels and he goes on to suggest that possibly it’s the EU that should be paying Britain ' . I'd argue a comment from not the sharpest tool in the box if he then expects us and the EU to have a mutually beneficial trade agreement post Brexit. That's if we want to trade with the EU easily, may be we can switch all our EU trade to Australia.....

Also he states that Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. which conveniently forgets the fact that we do already trade with other countries as well as Europe whilst we are in the EU.

We have a worrying lack of understanding of the Irish border issue 'Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders' with him yet again giving it the magic unicorn technology solution to sort it out.

And we finally have the classic from the hard brexit playbook Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios when talking about a hard Brexit. So we are back to 'ignore literally every forecast about the impact of a hard brexit' as it's all a conspiracy.

So IMHO big on emotion to stir national pride against the bogeyman of the EU, low on an practical ideas that would work in the real politic. Not sure where I've seen that before.....

 

[Foxholer]

Remain amazed there are folk that still believe the last forty or so years have been good to regular working folk.

And you are blaming ALL of that on bring in the EU?!

I'm inclined to blieve that exiting from the EU, on whatever terms, is likely to be bad for 'regular working folk'! At least in the short to medium term!

Remember Brexit is NOT about advantages for 'regular working folk'. It's about independence and control!

It's (at least it seems to me that it was initially) much more about the personal egos of certain politicians than actual 'regular working folk'!

 

[Foxholer]

May is being forced to publish the legal advice today.
This just shows we can’t trust MPs to tell us the truth.
Another referendum would not settle this as we know a lot more now but they still won’t tell us all the facts.
People voted to leave because big business left them behind.
Globalisation just wasn’t helping more than 52% of the population.
Massive companies avoiding taxes ,the rich looking after themselves.
Immigration impacted on low wages.
But all MPs are bothered about is business the very thing the people voted against.
If they screw this up and it looks like they are going to god knows what will happen.
But just staying in the EU is NOT the answer.

Cameron is responsible with the EU ,when he asked them for some concessions all they gave him was a kick up the backside that was the start of all this.
So the EU have themselves to blame as well.

Almost of the above is simply emotive rubbish (imo of course!)!

 

[Slime]

Is anyone aware of a rational response as to why this isn't practicable?

No, because I don't think there is one.

 

[Foxholer]

Seems to be quite a lot of support for revoking Art 50 in the UK.
The alternative is of course for Scotland and NI to remain in the EU and the [re-jigged] UK.
Amazing [not] that England and Wales have finally come round to the conclusion that there was always a problem with Brexit and NI.

Er...

A better (actually 'the idea'l imo) 'deal' would be for the whole of UK to remain in the Customs Union. Or the Single Market but without the 'Freedom of Movement of People' clause of the 'Four Freedoms'!

 

[Slab]

It's full of sweeping statements like 'A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. So we accept all EU product standards from now on without having any say in developing them, we just take what they say?

Also we have 'no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels and he goes on to suggest that possibly it’s the EU that should be paying Britain ' . I'd argue a comment from not the sharpest tool in the box if he then expects us and the EU to have a mutually beneficial trade agreement post Brexit. That's if we want to trade with the EU easily, may be we can switch all our EU trade to Australia.....

Also he states that Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. which conveniently forgets the fact that we do already trade with other countries as well as Europe whilst we are in the EU.

We have a worrying lack of understanding of the Irish border issue 'Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders' with him yet again giving it the magic unicorn technology solution to sort it out.

And we finally have the classic from the hard brexit playbook Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios when talking about a hard Brexit. So we are back to 'ignore literally every forecast about the impact of a hard brexit' as it's all a conspiracy.

So IMHO big on emotion to stir national pride against the bogeyman of the EU, low on an practical ideas that would work in the real politic. Not where I've seen that somewhere before.....

Yeah but might he still have a point?

I would never have voted leave anyway (given the chance) but now that its done I get the feeling every politician is using the process for personal and political gain rather than getting on with the job

i.e Are there many cases where the the broad EU product standards would've been damaging to UK consumers, in general they're a pretty civilised group of countries with a chunk of them having similar standards of society to the UK so if its good enough for the french or germans its good enough for a brit surely!
And if such harmful products were to be imported (i.e more dangerous than the many harmful products already imported to the UK from other parts of the world) then folks just wouldn't buy them (which weirdly might then generate a 'Buy British' culture)

So while it is complex does it really follow it has to be as complicated as this? Really, there's no workable options to simplify any of it. I mean its not like we need to provide a blueprint for other countries to follow, we just need to extract the UK

 

[MegaSteve]

And you are blaming ALL of that on bring in the EU?!

Yea.... Why not?! We hand over millions of our hard earnt to the charlatans that pollute Brussels with no visible benefit to our economy... And, like all box ticking desk jockeys they strut around full of their own self importance.... And, worse of all they don't believe they are answerable to anyone... So, red card it is...

 

[Sweep]

Surprise! Surprise!
The ECJ will deliver its ruling ( did anyone even ask for a ruling?) on whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 on Monday. That’s the day before parliament votes on the Withdrawal Agreement.
Who would have guessed? What a coincidence!
That is how daft they think we are.

 

[Foxholer]

Is anyone aware of a rational response as to why this isn't practicable?

It seems practicable. But whether it's 'Best for Britain' is a different matter!

It's merely another opinion - from an 'extremely gaffe-prone' sacked Aussie PM. I'm sure 'the other side' could roll out equally as many opinions from equivalent folk.

 

[User62651]

Surprise! Surprise!
The ECJ will deliver its ruling ( did anyone even ask for a ruling?) on whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 on Monday. That’s the day before parliament votes on the Withdrawal Agreement.
Who would have guessed? What a coincidence!
That is how daft they think we are.

This mess is all of our own Govt's making. Cake and eat proved delusional and now we've been found out. But blame the big bad EU.

 

[Slab]

It seems practicable. But whether it's 'Best for Britain' is a different matter!

It's merely another opinion - from an 'extremely gaffe-prone' sacked Aussie PM. I'm sure 'the other side' could roll out equally as many opinions from equivalent folk.

'Best for Britain'? I hardly think many of the voters had that endgame in mind when casting their vote, as usual it would have been whats best for me me me. So we don't really need to consider that as much as you'd first think

Not really aware of the fellas history. Just for kicks, where do you think you'd rank him alongside some of our esteemed examples of PM's in the last 20-30 years?

 

[bobmac]

Yea.... Why not?! We hand over millions of our hard earnt to the charlatans that pollute Brussels with no visible benefit to our economy... And, like all box ticking desk jockeys they strut around full of their own self importance.... And, worse of all they don't believe they are answerable to anyone... So, red card it is...

751 MEPs
E154,800 each plus free first class travel to work and E313 per day expenses while they are at work.
That includes almost E53,000 for office costs which remain secret

''An EU court has rejected calls for greater transparency about MEPs’ expenses, as it upheld a decision that politicians are not required to reveal how they spend public money intended for their offices.''
No surprise there then

249 MEPs don't have offices but still claim for them

And who pays for all this?

 

[clubchamp98]

Almost of the above is simply emotive rubbish (imo of course!)!

Your entitled to your opinion imo of course.
But a majority disagree with you imo of course.

 

[Foxholer]

'Best for Britain'? I hardly think many of the voters had that endgame in mind when casting their vote, as usual it would have been whats best for me me me. So we don't really need to consider that as much as you'd first think
...

Well there's almost always a degree of 'personal bias' in anyone's opinion!

But, supposedly, The PM, Cabinet and Parliament should be decidedly about what is 'Best for Britain'!

Not really aware of the fellas history. Just for kicks, where do you think you'd rank him alongside some of our esteemed examples of PM's in the last 20-30 years?

Cannot really compare him and been too far away from that neck of the woods to really comment. Rhodes Scholar, so certainly intelligent enough but here's a sentence from Wiki about his demise.... 'According to The Economist, his demise was a result of poor opinion polling, policy U-turns and gaffes and mean-spirited politics'.

Oh and my (Free Kirk) Grandmother would almost certainly have hated him!

 

[Foxholer]

Surprise! Surprise!
The ECJ will deliver its ruling ( did anyone even ask for a ruling?) on whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 on Monday. That’s the day before parliament votes on the Withdrawal Agreement.
Who would have guessed? What a coincidence!
That is how daft they think we are.

Re the bold bit!
Er, Yes! 'A group of Scottish Politicians'! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579

 

[clubchamp98]

Re the bold bit!
Er, Yes! 'A group of Scottish Politicians'! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579

Not the UK then !
Just some people who want independence how ironic!

 

[Hacker Khan]

Yeah but might he still have a point?

I would never have voted leave anyway (given the chance) but now that its done I get the feeling every politician is using the process for personal and political gain rather than getting on with the job

i.e Are there many cases where the the broad EU product standards would've been damaging to UK consumers, in general they're a pretty civilised group of countries with a chunk of them having similar standards of society to the UK so if its good enough for the french or germans its good enough for a brit surely!
And if such harmful products were to be imported (i.e more dangerous than the many harmful products already imported to the UK from other parts of the world) then folks just wouldn't buy them (which weirdly might then generate a 'Buy British' culture)

So while it is complex does it really follow it has to be as complicated as this? Really, there's no workable options to simplify any of it. I mean its not like we need to provide a blueprint for other countries to follow, we just need to extract the UK

I agree most politicians are using this to personal and political gain. That is the breed of politician we get now. Also agree that EU standards are likely to be sound. So I'd ask why we want to potentially opt out of them, or if we are adopting them then surely we'd want a say in devising them. As for people not buying harmful products then in theory yes, but in practice people will generally buy the cheapest as that is the kind of culture we now live in, a cheap throw away culture. That won't change, so without checks and balances on that companies will exploit that.

As for being complicated then you could argue that our economy, regulatory standards and part of our political system has been entwined with the EU for 40 off years now. So exiting all that is easy if all you are doing is making emotive statements of intent, but I think was always going to be horrendously complex when it came to the practical details if you want an ordered exit.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not the UK then !
Just some people who want independence how ironic!

Part of the UK who are entitled to have an opinion. Unless we think Brexit is just really Engexit.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Surprise! Surprise!
The ECJ will deliver its ruling ( did anyone even ask for a ruling?) on whether the UK can unilaterally withdraw A50 on Monday. That’s the day before parliament votes on the Withdrawal Agreement.
Who would have guessed? What a coincidence!
That is how daft they think we are.

Seemingly quite a lot were daft enough to believe the figures and immigrant images on the side of UKIP buses.
So quite a lot would be the answer to your question.

 

[User62651]

Not the UK then !
Just some people who want independence how ironic!

It was cross party so from unionists and nationalists. And welcomed by around half the UK population who at least want all options to be considered, not just Mays deal v No Deal as the PM put it.