Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[clubchamp98]

With the likes of Major and Blair sloping off to Brussels to sign us up for 'deals' we were not consulted on...
I have my doubts...

Yes I agree.
Politicians can’t be trusted. I would like to know if they can hold the government in contempt of parliament!
Then why didn’t they do this when Blair produced his dodgy document before we went to war in Iraq?
This could have stopped a WAR.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just seen on the news Teresa has been lying to us ,what a surprise!

 

[Fade and Die]

Seems to be quite a lot of support for revoking Art 50 in the UK.
The alternative is of course for Scotland and NI to remain in the EU and the [re-jigged] UK.
Amazing [not] that England and Wales have finally come round to the conclusion that there was always a problem with Brexit and NI.

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes I agree.
Politicians can’t be trusted. I would like to know if they can hold the government in contempt of parliament!
Then why didn’t they do this when Blair produced his dodgy document before we went to war in Iraq?
This could have stopped a WAR.

Blair has never been found culpable of dodgy documentation.

 

[ColchesterFC]

A hologram of Hadrian's Wall that can magically collect taxes and tarrifs from any vehicle passing it? A virtual Mel Gibson in full Braveheart outfit where you chuck coins up his kilt as you pass the border? There's got to be some kind of technology like this that will work, you need to think outside the box.

How foolish of me not to think of those options. One question for you though. After Brexit, once we've clamped down on immigration, will virtual Australians be given visas and be allowed to come here to work?

 

[SocketRocket]

May is being forced to publish the legal advice today.
This just shows we can’t trust MPs to tell us the truth.
Another referendum would not settle this as we know a lot more now but they still won’t tell us all the facts.
People voted to leave because big business left them behind.
Globalisation just wasn’t helping more than 52% of the population.
Massive companies avoiding taxes ,the rich looking after themselves.
Immigration impacted on low wages.
But all MPs are bothered about is business the very thing the people voted against.
If they screw this up and it looks like they are going to god knows what will happen.
But just staying in the EU is NOT the answer.

Cameron is responsible with the EU ,when he asked them for some concessions all they gave him was a kick up the backside that was the start of all this.
So the EU have themselves to blame as well.

Would you prefer us to have no businesses.

 

[clubchamp98]

Blair has never been found culpable of dodgy documentation.

That’s only because they won’t show the documents.
We will find out after 30yrs I think it is when they can’t hide them anymore.

 

[clubchamp98]

Would you prefer us to have no businesses.

Of course not but you can’t deny they are part of the equation.
What’s your high st like , big business is killing/ killed mine.

People will vote on what impacts their life and 52% decided they don’t like it at the moment.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Remain amazed there are folk that still believe the last forty or so years have been good to regular working folk.

Too true.…. what are we 6/7th richest nation in the world now with 4 million working poor relying on foodbanks and support from friends and family to survive. How the hell do you square that one off.
Around 40th nation in the quality of life league.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

A hologram of Hadrian's Wall that can magically collect taxes and tarrifs from any vehicle passing it? A virtual Mel Gibson in full Braveheart outfit where you chuck coins up his kilt as you pass the border? There's got to be some kind of technology like this that will work, you need to think outside the box.

OOI you've just pinched Mays NI proposal.

Scottish border is 100 miles shorter with very few connecting roads. Much easier to control and only let the nice people in.

 

[SocketRocket]

OOI you've just pinched Mays NI proposal.

Scottish border is 100 miles shorter with very few connecting roads. Much easier to control and only let the nice people in.

Don't leave then, you won't get back.

 

[clubchamp98]

OOI you've just pinched Mays NI proposal.

Scottish border is 100 miles shorter with very few connecting roads. Much easier to control and only let the nice people in.

That could sort the problem once and for all.
England Ireland Scotland And Wales all go independent.
Now that would be a referendum

 

[Hacker Khan]

Of course not but you can’t deny they are part of the equation.
What’s your high st like , big business is killing/ killed mine.

People will vote on what impacts their life and 52% decided they don’t like it at the moment.

Again I'm baffled why the EU is at fault for the state of our high streets? By all means vote for a party that has something in its manifesto about high street regeneration if it is a big issue to you. But blaming the EU for that is strange to say the least.

 

[Pants]

LBC's James O'Brien (SILH's idol apparently).

Self opinionated, loves the sound of his own voice (25 mins ? or so monologue today), refuses to accept any view that doesn't agree with his own, particularly with regard to the UK leaving the EU. Oh! James O'Brien that is, not SILH. Hang on a mo though ........

He has made clear though that he won't now appear on programs such as Question Time. Is this because he fears debate with people with different views to his who can actually debate rather than those on the phone who he can browbeat and cut off if they strike a nerve????????

 

[clubchamp98]

Again I'm baffled why the EU is at fault for the state of our high streets? By all means vote for a party that has something in its manifesto about high street regeneration if it is a big issue to you. But blaming the EU for that is strange to say the least.

I havnt said it’s the EUs fault!
I think it’s more the dissolusion with our own politicians and arrogance of big business.
The Philip Green episode , CEO’s of big companies refusing to attend commons select committee.
They just want a different politics and want our politicians to stop hiding behind the curtains.

 

[clubchamp98]

Again I'm baffled why the EU is at fault for the state of our high streets? By all means vote for a party that has something in its manifesto about high street regeneration if it is a big issue to you. But blaming the EU for that is strange to say the least.

What’s the use in voting when people want to overturn the result?
This is what politicians are trying to do.
The PM has made a complete mess by trying to please both sides when it’s just not possible but she has just carried on regardless.
Politicians are just not listening and that’s why people want a change.

It might be worse out of the EU but it might not !

 

[Slab]

From a former PM of Australia.
I'm of the opinion that this is how France would deal with the EU if they decided to leave.

Brexit: The final deal?
Spectator Events

It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.
Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.
The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.
But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.
Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.
Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.
Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.
Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).
UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.
As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it.
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015

Is anyone aware of a rational response as to why this isn't practicable?

 

[Hobbit]

Again I'm baffled why the EU is at fault for the state of our high streets? By all means vote for a party that has something in its manifesto about high street regeneration if it is a big issue to you. But blaming the EU for that is strange to say the least.

Many people think it’s guilty by association. The version I’ve heard, not the High streets, is in 1973 the U.K. had a mining industry, a steel making industry, a car making industry, a ship building industry and a chemicals industry. Most have either gone or barely exist today.

So what have the EU done for us in protecting our manufacturing industries?

If you sit in a pub in the northeast of England and ask about the EU you’re likely to get a very direct answer. When I started work in ‘78 there were over 80,000 people directly employed on Teesside in steel making, chemicals and ship building. There are now less than 4,000.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Many people think it’s guilty by association. The version I’ve heard, not the High streets, is in 1973 the U.K. had a mining industry, a steel making industry, a car making industry, a ship building industry and a chemicals industry. Most have either gone or barely exist today.

So what have the EU done for us in protecting our manufacturing industries?

If you sit in a pub in the northeast of England and ask about the EU you’re likely to get a very direct answer. When I started work in ‘78 there were over 80,000 people directly employed on Teesside in steel making, chemicals and ship building. There are now less than 4,000.

I grew up in a mining town and also saw the demise of that industry. But I'd argue that the decline of manufacturing and mining was mostly caused by government policy and global economic factors that we just can not isolate ourselves from. I get protest votes and dissatisfaction with politicians, but I just feel people are protesting against the wrong targets with the EU if they are thinking that coming out will make any difference to the structure of our economy. As coming out will give even more power to the Eton Rifles or Comrade Corbyn. I'd be a little less worried if I thought we had a good bunch of politicians, especially ministers, who are mostly in it for the good of the country.

Taking it to a silly extreme it's like saying Cliff Richard has had a top ten hit in each of the last 5 decades, during which we have lost our manufacturing industry and seen the increase of zero hours contracts and increased minimum wage employment. So let's ban Cliff from releasing singles as that will sort it out.

 

[Dando]

I grew up in a mining town and also saw the demise of that industry. But I'd argue that the decline of manufacturing and mining was mostly caused by government policy and global economic factors that we just can not isolate ourselves from. I get protest votes and dissatisfaction with politicians, but I just feel people are protesting against the wrong targets with the EU if they are thinking that coming out will make any difference to the structure of our economy. As coming out will give even more power to the Eton Rifles or Comrade Corbyn. I'd be a little less worried if I thought we had a good bunch of politicians, especially ministers, who are mostly in it for the good of the country.

Taking it to a silly extreme it's like saying Cliff Richard has had a top ten hit in each of the last 5 decades, during which we have lost our manufacturing industry and seen the increase of zero hours contracts and increased minimum wage employment. So let's ban Cliff from releasing singles as that will sort it out.

I 100% agree with the last sentence