Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[clubchamp98]

What the SNP say they want and what all Scotland wants are separate issues. EU membership and independence are not directly linked. Some people want both, some want one only and some want neither.[/QUOT

Sat at stanstead waiting to go to Rome for the weekend and ave thought this for a while. Does Theresa May and her Remain cronies actually want to leave the EU. I mean i know she voted remain but is she actually doung the best job possible for the UK. Me finks not. I cannot quite put me finger on it. But there is a strong smell of the brown smelly stuff with this Brexit situation.[/QUOTE

 

[clubchamp98]

Been smelly for a while

 

[drdel]

751 MEPs
E154,800 each plus free first class travel to work and E313 per day expenses while they are at work.
That includes almost E53,000 for office costs which remain secret

''An EU court has rejected calls for greater transparency about MEPs’ expenses, as it upheld a decision that politicians are not required to reveal how they spend public money intended for their offices.''
No surprise there then

249 MEPs don't have offices but still claim for them

And who pays for all this?

Exactly and, they certainly used to simply self certify any expenses, and as a Golfer you'd know that everyone will abide (and know) the 'rules')!!

No one checks whether any particular trip, to and from Brussels, was actually made or whether the office was used - and that applies for 'expert' advisors not just the MEP's. The whole game of cards is corrupt and an accountancy/ audit shambles - each new MEP/expert is advised/afraid to rock the boat and so it perpetuates. However they are quick to knock the Greeks (and others) for avoiding paying tax

 

[bluewolf]

Don't believe I've ever had a government or bureaucracy deliver what I want... Being disappointed will not be a new experience...

If I could be so bold as to put forward a theory..

It's dawned on me that a sizable percentage of the Leave vote have done so because of their utter disillusionment with the Political Classes. They were probably quite unhappy before the Expenses Scandal, but are utterly furious now that nothing appears to have happened. the Banking Scandal has also added petrol to the flames.

They have now taken the first available opportunity to reject a Political Body (A General Election would not provide this outlet as they would have to vote for another Party anyway). They have vented their ire at an Organisation (The EU) that is clearly riddled with the same issues as more local Government. Who can blame them for that?

However, what if that particular troubled organisation is actually one that holds the other more local troubled organisation in check? What if what they have actually done is to place more power in the hands of those who caused most of the problems in the first place. What if, by virtue of the Referendum, we have actually made things much much worse? We have put power into the hands of the much vaunted Global Elite (Corporations). Now wouldn't that be a kick in the nuts?

Anyway, just my musings whilst I've had my head stuck in spreadsheets for the last 3 days!!!!!!!!

 

[clubchamp98]

Exactly and, they certainly used to simply self certify any expenses, and as a Golfer you'd know that everyone will abide (and know) the 'rules')!!

No one checks whether any particular trip, to and from Brussels, was actually made or whether the office was used - and that applies for 'expert' advisors not just the MEP's. The whole game of cards is corrupt and an accountancy/ audit shambles - each new MEP/expert is advised/afraid to rock the boat and so it perpetuates. However they are quick to knock the Greeks (and others) for avoiding paying tax

Have they had their books signed off yet ,it’s only been forty years.
Gravy train

 

[clubchamp98]

If I could be so bold as to put forward a theory..

It's dawned on me that a sizable percentage of the Leave vote have done so because of their utter disillusionment with the Political Classes. They were probably quite unhappy before the Expenses Scandal, but are utterly furious now that nothing appears to have happened. the Banking Scandal has also added petrol to the flames.

They have now taken the first available opportunity to reject a Political Body (A General Election would not provide this outlet as they would have to vote for another Party anyway). They have vented their ire at an Organisation (The EU) that is clearly riddled with the same issues as more local Government. Who can blame them for that?

However, what if that particular troubled organisation is actually one that holds the other more local troubled organisation in check? What if what they have actually done is to place more power in the hands of those who caused most of the problems in the first place. What if, by virtue of the Referendum, we have actually made things much much worse? We have put power into the hands of the much vaunted Global Elite (Corporations). Now wouldn't that be a kick in the nuts?

Anyway, just my musings whilst I've had my head stuck in spreadsheets for the last 3 days!!!!!!!!

There’s a lot of “what ifs” in there.
This is more or less what I have been saying .
It’s the first time people have had a say for forty years , and others are telling them they didn’t understand the question.

We give them loads of cash they give us some back then erect a plaque saying. “ built with EU funding”
The rest goes on moving parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg for one day.

The contempt they have for us is staggering.
And it needs to stop but won’t.
The only way we can stop paying them is to leave.

 

[bluewolf]

There’s a lot of “what ifs” in there.

There are, yes. However, as I said. It's only a theory of mine.. I need the Leave Camp to confirm it.

FWIW, I understand that motivation much better than some of the others that have been presented on here. My only worry is that we've kicked the arses of the wrong people.

 

[clubchamp98]

There are, yes. However, as I said. It's only a theory of mine.. I need the Leave Camp to confirm it.

FWIW, I understand that motivation much better than some of the others that have been presented on here. My only worry is that we've kicked the arses of the wrong people.

That’s a possibility but when the people speak it’s the governments job to do it.

I have been questioned on here about the demise of the high st and what that’s got to do with the EU.
But it’s all down to your personal perception , if all your parks , cinemas, youth clubs , library’s are closing it has a massive impact on how you think.
Personal circumstances do sway your thinking .
They look at the excesses in the EU and say my taxes are paying for that and it’s got to stop.

But I’ve said many times Nobody knows the truth we are all mushrooms!

 

[bluewolf]

That’s a possibility but when the people speak it’s the governments job to do it.

I have been questioned on here about the demise of the high st and what that’s got to do with the EU.
But it’s all down to your personal perception , if all your parks , cinemas, youth clubs , library’s are closing it has a massive impact on how you think.
Personal circumstances do sway your thinking .
They look at the excesses in the EU and say my taxes are paying for that and it’s got to stop.

But I’ve said many times Nobody knows the truth we are all mushrooms!

I can't argue with your view of the problems. I do disagree with your opinion on who is to blame. When I look at what has happened over the last 10 years especially, there's only one group of people that I would lay the blame at the feet of, and they don't speak with a funny accent (unless you class Eton as a funny accent)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

David Lammy speaking with passion, realism and clarity about the EU and leaving it.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/to...h-to-the-house-of-commons-on-brexit-1-5806571

 

[Hobbit]

I can't argue with your view of the problems. I do disagree with your opinion on who is to blame. When I look at what has happened over the last 10 years especially, there's only one group of people that I would lay the blame at the feet of, and they don't speak with a funny accent (unless you class Eton as a funny accent)

Does that not suggest you blame the Tories, and only the Tories. The partnership of Blair and Brown has a lot to answer too, especially in their latter years.

 

[Hobbit]

David Lammy speaking with passion, realism and clarity about the EU and leaving it.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/to...h-to-the-house-of-commons-on-brexit-1-5806571

It’s rubbish. I’ve not heard a single person talk of another empire. It’s a 6th former’s end of year speech at best.

 

[Foxholer]

David Lammy speaking with passion, realism and clarity about the EU and leaving it.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/to...h-to-the-house-of-commons-on-brexit-1-5806571

Half a dozen members on the Government sid and a dozen or so on the opposition side! Hardly a speech that had parliamentary impact! Unfotunately!

 

[Foxholer]

There’s a lot of “what ifs” in there.
This is more or less what I have been saying .
It’s the first time people have had a say for forty years , and others are telling them they didn’t understand the question.

We give them loads of cash they give us some back then erect a plaque saying. “ built with EU funding”
The rest goes on moving parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg for one day.

The contempt they have for us is staggering.
And it needs to stop but won’t.
The only way we can stop paying them is to leave.

I'd suggest you visit your Doctor befor you do some real damage to yourself or others!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Are you sure I remember seeing trailers driving around .
Are you here illegally please phone this number !
Am pretty sure it was a home office thing.

They were the posters that May authorised when she was Home Secretary
The separatist ones were from UKIP.
Remember when they used a picture of Syrian refugees [not immigrants] and inferred they were queuing up to come to the UK. Not forgetting the 51 million Turkish residents who would also be joining the queue. That really shook up the OAPs.

 

[bluewolf]

Does that not suggest you blame the Tories, and only the Tories. The partnership of Blair and Brown has a lot to answer too, especially in their latter years.

I was more referring to the last 10 years, but I appreciate that it wasn't clear.

For the avoidance of doubt, I blame successive Governments for the complete failure to halt the ever growing gap between Rich and Poor. Our over-willingness to accept poor treatment by Global powers and our ever more desperate pursuit of economic growth via the growth of population and therefore debt has resulted in a paper thin economy that is heavily weighted towards making the Rich wealthier and the Poor subservient.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I dont intend to get embroiled in the arguement, but what I do know is that personally we are down 50% of our work since the referendum. Forget small to medium pain, if things carry on the way they have been we shall be shut and I shall be having to try and find other employment.

 

[clubchamp98]

I can't argue with your view of the problems. I do disagree with your opinion on who is to blame. When I look at what has happened over the last 10 years especially, there's only one group of people that I would lay the blame at the feet of, and they don't speak with a funny accent (unless you class Eton as a funny accent)

I never really said it’s the EU fault as such.
But I do think it’s a combination of them plus our own successive governments.
But I think when we never went in the Euro that was the start of us not really integrating fully.
But as has been said the gap between rich and poor is greatest here.
But I would counter a lot of the rich ones are from other countries, especially in London.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I dont intend to get embroiled in the arguement, but what I do know is that personally we are down 50% of our work since the referendum. Forget small to medium pain, if things carry on the way they have been we shall be shut and I shall be having to try and find other employment.

What line of work are you in?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'd suggest you visit your Doctor befor you do some real damage to yourself or others!

It’s to late for that!
But if you care to explain what damage I can to others I will bear it in mind.