Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[USER1999]

No vote at 16 to me. Happy with 18. 16 is still a child. They might not think they are, but they are.

 

[Papas1982]

I just used a 70 year old who votes out of habit for one party as an example. Of course they should all have the right to vote and being engaged or not-engaged is not something that should determine your rights or not.

At age 16 you can work, pay tax, get married, have children.
At 17 you can drive, pay road tax etc.

Like I said, I don't see the logic in arguing against votes from 16 at all.

You now have to remain in education until 18 don't you? So I'd imagine very little in way of tax is paid.
You also pay a premium to drive at 17 (insurance) as its calculated your more at risk to make a mistake.

I'd also hazard a guess (based purely on my own council estate bringing up) that most 16 year old having kids rely heavily on help from their parents.

For me. Being able to do the things you mention shouldn't be a criteria used for those who should vote. That being said. There are plenty older that probably shouldn't either.

Think back to when you were 16.i think most will admit that politics was the last thing on their mind.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Think back to when you were 16.i think most will admit that politics was the last thing on their mind.

100% agree and honestly I think that vast amounts of people of all ages have absolutely no interest and therefore no idea on what any of this stuff means.....for instance, my wife has zero interest so has voted at all elections how I have voted.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It's impossible to ascertain who is and who isn't suitable to vote.
At 16 I knew what I thought and have stuck to that, save for the odd tactical vote, since I first voted at 18.
I knew others who were even more convinced of their ideology back then.
Now I work with "adults" who have no clue about politics, so don't vote, or vote as they are told by parents or friends, or decide when they get in the ballot box.
Brexit discussions, back in 2016, included people who voted leave because they don't like their local MP, remain because they didn't know what they were voting for and stuck with the status quo, and didn't vote because they couldn't be arsed.

Personally I think 18 is a good start point

 

[Leftie]

In my experience, it is the older generation who are close to retirement or already retired that have this distorted view that the UK is nothing more than a breeding ground for hate and depravity and only a return to pure sovereignty (I love when people pretend they care about sovereignty when they really mean "Britain for Britons!!!!") will save us from this downfall.

If you really believe that, then I feel really, really sorry for you. Perhaps you need to expand your circle of contacts/friend. Get out into the real world.

 

[Taz]

16/17 year olds won't vote until someone develops an app to do it

 

[Grant85]

You now have to remain in education until 18 don't you? So I'd imagine very little in way of tax is paid.
You also pay a premium to drive at 17 (insurance) as its calculated your more at risk to make a mistake.

I'd also hazard a guess (based purely on my own council estate bringing up) that most 16 year old having kids rely heavily on help from their parents.

For me. Being able to do the things you mention shouldn't be a criteria used for those who should vote. That being said. There are plenty older that probably shouldn't either.

Think back to when you were 16.i think most will admit that politics was the last thing on their mind.

I've not seen anything there that is a justifiable reason. Why are people in school or college not entitled to vote? They can do modern apprenticeships, have weekend jobs etc. Appreciate they might not be paying tax, but if they happen to earn enough they would do.

Also, with a general trend towards voter apathy and turnouts often well below 50% in some elections, why not let any younger people who want a say into the process?
What are the negatives?
What are you afraid will happen?

As I've said, the actual numbers that vote will be a very small percentage of any constituency or region.

The government that is elected on that day will make laws and influence them when they do become 18 and will of course probably still be the government when they become 18 as well.

 

[Leftie]

Facts - we are out performing everyone else whilst still in the EU 👍

Even though doom and gloom was forecast as an immediate direct consequence of the result of the referendum.

There have been many claims over the past three years but any affect of leaving the EU won’t be known until we actually leave.

So how can you, or any one else, know and argue that we will be worse off when we leave. The doom and gloom merchants say that leaving without a deal will be a total disaster. Give the population facts not suppositions and opinions which are, by definition, biased.

But some other facts - some companies have lost contracts and stuff due to Brexit

And by the same token, some have benefited.

 

[Sandsider]

Boris's defence will be 'You didn't mention the sign on the other side of the bus, it read 'Free Beer Tomorrow!. Nobody took that seriously so what's the problem?'

 

[Papas1982]

I've not seen anything there that is a justifiable reason. Why are people in school or college not entitled to vote? They can do modern apprenticeships, have weekend jobs etc. Appreciate they might not be paying tax, but if they happen to earn enough they would do.

Also, with a general trend towards voter apathy and turnouts often well below 50% in some elections, why not let any younger people who want a say into the process?
What are the negatives?
What are you afraid will happen?

As I've said, the actual numbers that vote will be a very small percentage of any constituency or region.
Quite simply you listed reasons why they should vote, but imo they do none of them fully. As I showed. So for me you showed no justifiable reason for them to vote imo 😀

In regards to voter apathy. Youth was still the greatest offender so I have no fear (a phrase spouted frequently) by those wishing for remain and believing youth would have given them what they want. I couldn’t care less what way the vote went as I have no faith in parliament doing what’s best for us. Remain or brexit they are all self serving (that’s another debate though).
The government that is elected on that day will make laws and influence them when they do become 18 and will of course probably still be the government when they become 18 as well.

I've not seen anything there that is a justifiable reason. Why are people in school or college not entitled to vote? They can do modern apprenticeships, have weekend jobs etc. Appreciate they might not be paying tax, but if they happen to earn enough they would do.

Also, with a general trend towards voter apathy and turnouts often well below 50% in some elections, why not let any younger people who want a say into the process?
What are the negatives?
What are you afraid will happen?

As I've said, the actual numbers that vote will be a very small percentage of any constituency or region.

The government that is elected on that day will make laws and influence them when they do become 18 and will of course probably still be the government when they become 18 as well.

Quite simply you listed reasons why they should vote, but imo they do none of them fully. So as you’ve said, I see no justifiable reason either.....

In regards to voter apathy. Youth was still the greatest offender so I have no fear (a phrase spouted frequently) by those wishing for remain and believing youth would have given them what they want. I couldn’t care less what way the vote went as I have no faith in parliament doing what’s best for us. Remain or brexit they are all self serving (that’s another debate though).

Quite simply imo 16yr olds are children. They are still massively dependent on their parents. Obviously as with everything there can be exceptions. But imo as soon as brexit is resolved one way or another their lack of numbers voting will return again. Which in itself shows their real lack of interest in politics that aren’t deemed as beneficial to them.

 

[Fade and Die]

Got nothing to do with stopping Brexit though, has it!

Wake up mate.....

““Once these prosecutions have established that politicians did indeed lie to voters our next step will be to take other action to prevent Brexit. This may be in the form of a judicial review… We will also work to reverse Brexit and ensure our membership of the European Union is not lost”

https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/campaigner-stop-lying-politics-lied-political-campaign/

 

[Hacker Khan]

16/17 year olds won't vote until someone develops an app to do it

To be honest any modern society should make it as easy to vote as possible, which nowadays will involve utilising the internet. Anyone thinking otherwise to me seems a bit 20th century and out of date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Estonia

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Wake up mate.....

““Once these prosecutions have established that politicians did indeed lie to voters our next step will be to take other action to prevent Brexit. This may be in the form of a judicial review… We will also work to reverse Brexit and ensure our membership of the European Union is not lost”

https://order-order.com/2019/05/29/campaigner-stop-lying-politics-lied-political-campaign/

Seems like a totally non-biased, non-paranoid publication 🙄

 

[Doon frae Troon]

16/17 year olds won't vote until someone develops an app to do it

My 17 year old granddaughter has just gone out today in her brand new car, payed for from her own business that she has run for over a year.
I should think that she deserves a vote above a pensioner who has spent 30 years on the dole.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

My 17 year old granddaughter has just gone out today in her brand new car, payed for from her own business that she has run for over a year.
I should think that she deserves a vote above a pensioner who has spent 30 years on the dole.

But she is very much a one off

 

[Fade and Die]

Seems like a totally non-biased, non-paranoid publication 🙄

Ahh yes that old chestnut.😴

If it’s not on Auntie Beeb it must be a lie!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Ahh yes that old chestnut.😴

If it’s not on Auntie Beeb it must be a lie!

I’m guessing there’s an article on there about how the remainers are aliens come to take over 👽

Do David Ike of Alex Jones contribute regularly?

 

[MegaSteve]

Not sure what I find more troubling... Voters who's opinions that have been formed by reading the torygraph or those that have been formed viewing YouTube...

 

[chrisd]

I just used a 70 year old who votes out of habit for one party as an example. Of course they should all have the right to vote and being engaged or not-engaged is not something that should determine your rights or not.

At age 16 you can work, pay tax, get married, have children.
At 17 you can drive, pay road tax etc.

Like I said, I don't see the logic in arguing against votes from 16 at all.

I'm not arguing against 16 to vote, I'm not totally convinced it's the right age but I certainly dont have a problem myself

 

[ColchesterFC]

In general I tend to find that those on the left of centre will support lowering the voting age to 16 and those on the right of centre will be against it. I would suspect that it's because younger people tend to support parties to the left and older voters tend to support parties to the right therefore increasing the potential vote share for the left. I wonder how much of this influence comes from teachers/lecturers, which seems to be a mainly left of centre profession leading to a bias in how politics is taught in schools and universities.