Bifurcation? Pros & Cons?

[mikejohnchapman]

Wouldn't it be easier to do it the other way around? We can carry on using whatever is on the approved equipment list but the professional tours have their own, more restrictive, list and a local rule that says entrants must conform to that list. The 'pro' list would be a subset of the general list. Those players on the cusp will find themselves entering some tournaments where they can use everything and others where they can only use pro equipment - giving them a graduated transition.

Be intersting to understand from the ball manufacturers how dificult it would be to manufacture a ball that doesn't go so far. I am assuming the dimple pattern and cover would not alter just the sub layers to give it a lower compression? Would this be difficult or easy and if so what would be the volumes they would need to make it viable?

 

[clubchamp98]

Be intersting to understand from the ball manufacturers how dificult it would be to manufacture a ball that doesn't go so far. I am assuming the dimple pattern and cover would not alter just the sub layers to give it a lower compression? Would this be difficult or easy and if so what would be the volumes they would need to make it viable?

They have spent years making a ball go further that I think making it shorter is just a matter of going back to a 1980/90 s ball .
Maybe only the resilience of the cover may differ.
Can’t see it happening. Just to much money involved for the OEMs.
Would be like making PL footballers play with leather balls with laces in them.

 

[birdyhunter]

For me I'd like to leave everything as it is. I don't find watching or playing golf boring. I don't care if someone hits the ball 400yds, I find that intriguing and love the idea that someone who works harder at their game can be better than other players. I'm not that interested in watching all the players 'cross the line' at the same time (like a horse race handicap system).

My thoughts entirely too.

I also enjoy playing the same courses as pro golfers in very similar conditions. Yes tournament set up is different, but playing a great course with the same equipment as them is fun and makes you appreciate their considerable talent. I'd feel that I was cheating slightly if there was an equipment advantage for amateurs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

My thoughts entirely too.

I also enjoy playing the same courses as pro golfers in very similar conditions. Yes tournament set up is different, but playing a great course with the same equipment as them is fun and makes you appreciate their considerable talent. I'd feel that I was cheating slightly if there was an equipment advantage for amateurs.

You don't play exactly the same course though, as you mention. In pro tournaments the tees are further back, a par 5 may become a par 4, greens will be much faster. Subtle differences but still differences. That is all that is being talked about here as well. Fundamentally the same driver, the same ball but with subtle alterations only.

 

[birdyhunter]

You don't play exactly the same course though, as you mention. In pro tournaments the tees are further back, a par 5 may become a par 4, greens will be much faster. Subtle differences but still differences. That is all that is being talked about here as well. Fundamentally the same driver, the same ball but with subtle alterations only.

Yes, that was what I was trying to say in that the tournament set up is different.. tees, rough, green speed etc.

Interested to know the difference between a professional version of say ProV1 ball and the amateur version.. is it compression, weight, size? How much difference does it make in terms of percentage distance?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes, that was what I was trying to say in that the tournament set up is different.. tees, rough, green speed etc.

Interested to know the difference between a professional version of say ProV1 ball and the amateur version.. is it compression, weight, size? How much difference does it make in terms of percentage distance?

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you there. I guess I don't see the big deal in running slightly different equipment as I think that is already there in reality. Even down to the courses which we can play but are not really the same. That was my point in my reply really, if the differences between the course set up that you and I can play and they do play, are the same as the differences in club and ball between am and pro then is that really a big deal?

I think balls are currently the same aren't they? A pro V1 is a pro V1 I think. Happy to be corrected there.

 

[birdyhunter]

No problem, I totally see your point about the same courses not really being the same.

I thought different versions of equipment and balls was underway already.. possibly too early. I wonder if the OEMs are working on it or hoping it just goes away, saving them pots of cash.

Make the pros play with my local driving range balls, that would hold them back!

 

[MarkT]

Why did he think this?

They play courses at around 6700 yards so isn't a problem and courses don't have to be tweaked to accommodate them

 

[rulefan]

I also enjoy playing the same courses as pro golfers in very similar conditions.

I think you will find that conditions are very different. Back tees are moved further back or moved to a different line. Rough is longer. Non-fairway areas beyond doglegs are enlarged. Stimp speed is upped significantly.

 

[clubchamp98]

We played Orange County National in Orlando the day after the Q school for the USPGA tour.
We had a go off the back tees ( bad mistake) 7400 yds soaking wet at 8am.
All of us 2 scratch players and a 4 &5 handicap we struggled to get on the par 4s because of the length.
The par 3s were woods.
And the greens 13 on the stimp were fantastic.
If anyone thinks they play the same conditions as the pros they are wrong.
There are exceptions Old course etc but not many.

 

[birdyhunter]

I think you will find that conditions are very different. Back tees are moved further back or moved to a different line. Rough is longer. Non-fairway areas beyond doglegs are enlarged. Stimp speed is upped significantly.

True for the ET but I like to watch as much golf as possible on the Challenge and Jamega tours where the courses aren’t always changed as dramatically.

 

[Crow]

They play courses at around 6700 yards so isn't a problem and courses don't have to be tweaked to accommodate them

They'll still be playing their second shots from closer to the green than the course designer envisaged.

 

[MarkT]

True, the same pro, who's particularly long, said he would hit wedge on nearly every par 4.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

True, the same pro, who's particularly long, said he would hit wedge on nearly every par 4.

I'm guessing that is not for his 3rd shot?

Not what was intended by the designer, as @Crow suggests

 

[Mandofred]

Being an ex track and field coach (and cross country, wrestling, basketball, volleyball, tennis, even....spit spit...UK football/soccer (1 season never to be repeated...)....think back to the javelin days. They got longer and longer.....in danger of throwing out of the area that had traditionally been their area in the middle of the track. They changed the rules to keep the javelin from knocking down airplanes and killing people running around the track. Complaints by the zillions....but they dealt with it. Come on golfers....deal with it. Something has to happen...as long as everybody is under the same rules....it's fair. OK...you 63 year old (damn I'm old) folks can't hit it as far....I've heard that having a bigger **** isn't the answer to everything. I admit it....my wedge only goes 90 yards. Cutting a couple of yards out of that means nadda.

 

[JustOne]

Maybe they should just add more hazzards at 'pro length', especially more ditches/streams at 320+yds, that'll add a bit of spice and not affect the average hacker that much.

I can't think of anything worse than shortening the distance that the pros hit.

{in commentators voice....}
"McIroy's absolutely ripped a 260yrd drive straight down the middle...."

BORING!!!!!!!

 

[USER1999]

Maybe they should just add more hazzards at 'pro length', especially more ditches/streams at 320+yds, that'll add a bit of spice and not affect the average hacker that much.

I can't think of anything worse than shortening the distance that the pros hit.

{in commentators voice....}
"McIroy's absolutely ripped a 260yrd drive straight down the middle...."

BORING!!!!!!!

Sorry James. Rubbish. Utter flipping garbage. Spend millions changing golf courses to add totally unnecessary hazards for the normal golfer, or, limit the equipment a bit. What is easier? Cheaper? More environmentally friendlier?

 

[USER1999]

Watching pro golfers drive the ball is pretty boring. It's a closed skill. Tee it up, whack it down your preffered side of the fairway, and that's it. Watching on TV, is there a difference between 300 yards and 340? Or is it only how short the next shot is?
The interest is the second shot. The money shot.
So, a wedge out of 4 inch rough, some spin, and middle of the green?

Or, a 5i, from the short stuff, ditch the silly rough, but you have to cut it, or high draw it to a tight pin, use the contours of the green, may be the approach too. Miss the green, and no, it doesn't snag up 5" off the green in rough, it runs off 20 yards down a slope, because it doesn't spin. Tricky shot back. Sort out the guys who can play a bit.

 

[JustOne]

Spend millions changing golf courses to add totally unnecessary hazards for the normal golfer, or, limit the equipment a bit.

I don't think it costs millions to run a ditch across a fairway or two, add a pond, narrow the fairways at 320yds or even grow the rough across the fairway in places.
Some of the best TV golf I've seen are where the pros hit the ball too far and run out of fairway.

Not sure about the 'normal golfer' comment. We can chop it round in continuous double-bogies on most courses.

As I said in a previous post... I'm happy watching and playing golf as it currently is, I happen to like watching pros hitting it 400yds, it blows my mind. There are enough people in the field that CAN'T hit a drive that far so it makes it interesting in a David VS Monster-Hitter-Goliath kinda way.

 

[birdyhunter]

We played Orange County National in Orlando the day after the Q school for the USPGA tour.
We had a go off the back tees ( bad mistake) 7400 yds soaking wet at 8am.
All of us 2 scratch players and a 4 &5 handicap we struggled to get on the par 4s because of the length.
The par 3s were woods.
And the greens 13 on the stimp were fantastic.
If anyone thinks they play the same conditions as the pros they are wrong.
There are exceptions Old course etc but not many.

So what you're saying is that you did play the course in the same conditions as the pros?