Ball on steep bunkerside slope leaning on rake

[IanG]

This one came up in a bounce game yesterday and I couldn't decide how to correctly proceed so here goes...

Ball comes to rest on a steep slope down to a bunker but is prevented from rolling into the bunker by a rake handle.

Removing the rake inevitably means the ball rolls into the bunker.

Any attempt to drop in the original position would also end with the ball in the bunker

It is possible with care to place the ball on the slope without it rolling into the bunker.

How should one proceed?

Thanks

 

[guest100718]

If you cant place it in the original spot without it moving then you must find the closest place you can put it that it doesn't roll from. No nearer the hole and not in a hazard.


I think...

 

[rulefan]

Paddy is pretty well correct. However, the ball must not be pushed into the sand (even slightly).
But the rake should not have been in the bunker in the first place.

Decision 20-3d/2

Ball in Bunker Moves Closer to Hole When Obstruction Removed and Ball Will Not Remain at Rest When Replaced; All Other Parts of Bunker Are Nearer Hole

Q.A ball came to rest against a movable obstruction, a rake, in a bunker. When the rake was moved the ball rolled nearer the hole. According to Rule 24-1, the ball had to be replaced. Due to the slope and the fact that the sand was firm, the ball, when replaced, rolled closer to the hole.
Under Rule 30-3d, if a ball will not come to rest on the spot where it originally lay, it must be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole where it can be placed at rest. The spot where the ball originally lay was farther from the hole than any other part of the bunker. Thus, there was nowhere to place the ball at rest in the bunker that was not nearer the hole. What is the proper procedure if:
1. The only way the ball would remain at rest at the spot where it lay would be to press it lightly into the sand?
2. The sand is so hard that it is impossible to replace the ball?

A.There is nothing in the Rules permitting a player to press his ball lightly into the sand or ground to make it remain at rest. Accordingly, in either case, since the player could not place the ball in conformity with the Rules, he should proceed under the stroke-and-distance option of the unplayable ball Rule (Rule 28a) or, in equity (Rule 1-4), drop the ball, under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.
The same principle would apply if a player is proceeding under any Rule and the ball will not come to rest in the bunker at a spot not nearer to the hole than the appropriate reference point.

Related Decisions:

· http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#d1-2-9 Player Presses Ball into Surface of Putting Green.

· http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-34/#Misc./2 Whether Rakes Should Be Placed In or Outside Bunkers.

 

[Foxholer]

Paddy is pretty well correct. However, the ball must not be pushed into the sand (even slightly).
But the rake should not have been in the bunker in the first place.

Decision 20-3d/2

Ball in Bunker Moves Closer to Hole When Obstruction Removed and Ball Will Not Remain at Rest When Replaced; All Other Parts of Bunker Are Nearer Hole
....

Wrong Rule Rulefan. Quantum 'brain shift' between sentence 1 and 2?

Rake wasn't in the bunker.

Rule 24-1 applies. Then 20-2 and 20-3! Paddy's post is correct - find the nearest place NNTH where Place works.

And where Rakes should be placed is down to The Committee - as the Decision states! This incident demonstrates that nowhere is foolproof!

 

[Colin L]

This one came up in a bounce game yesterday and I couldn't decide how to correctly proceed so here goes...

Ball comes to rest on a steep slope down to a bunker but is prevented from rolling into the bunker by a rake handle.

Removing the rake inevitably means the ball rolls into the bunker.

Any attempt to drop in the original position would also end with the ball in the bunker

It is possible with care to place the ball on the slope without it rolling into the bunker.

How should one proceed?

Thanks

That's what you should have done in the first place. If a ball lying against a moveable obstruction moves when you lift the obstruction it should be replaced (24-1a). Since you say that with care you could have placed the ball on the slope without its moving, you didn't actually have a problem!

As a footnote: you only have to drop if your ball is on a moveable obstruction ie the ball is not touching the ground.

 

[Foxholer]

That's what you should have done in the first place. If a ball lying against a moveable obstruction moves when you lift the obstruction it should be replaced (24-1a). Since you say that with care you could have placed the ball on the slope without its moving, you didn't actually have a problem!

As a footnote: you only have to drop if your ball is on a moveable obstruction ie the ball is not touching the ground.

True. Similar quantum brain-shift in my thinking about Drops!

And assumed the 'placed' option had been tried and found wanting too.

Note to self! Read the whole post!

 

[IanG]

Thanks for clarifying - I see now it is a straight forward case of replacing the ball under 24-1 as Colin said.

As it happens this is exactly what we did but were not sure if we were right at the time.

cheers

Ian

 

[rulefan]

Wrong Rule Rulefan. Quantum 'brain shift' between sentence 1 and 2?

Rake wasn't in the bunker.

Rule 24-1 applies. Then 20-2 and 20-3! Paddy's post is correct - find the nearest place NNTH where Place works.

And where Rakes should be placed is down to The Committee - as the Decision states! This incident demonstrates that nowhere is foolproof!

Of course. Missed the location of the rake.
We have been debating this fiercely in my club recently and I had the situation in my mind.
'In' of course may involve a penalty. 'Out' won't. As we found in our Club Championship earlier today.

 

[Foxholer]

Of course. Missed the location of the rake.
We have been debating this fiercely in my club recently and I had the situation in my mind.
'In' of course may involve a penalty. 'Out' won't. As we found in our Club Championship earlier today.

That strikes me as a compelling reason to have Rakes 'Out'! Contrary to what seems better 'naturally' to me!

 

[rulefan]

That strikes me as a compelling reason to have Rakes 'Out'! Contrary to what seems better 'naturally' to me!

Until I read the decision and really looked into it that's what I thought.
Although my club policy is now 'out', there are players who think they know best. In this case the player (out of contention fortunately) pressed his ball into the sand and it was only queried later in the bar when he was discussing the merits of in/out that someone picked it up.
The good news was that a lot more players are now aware of the possible consequences.