Ball falls off tee and player 'breaks the plane'

[Spuddy]

What if he tried to miss it but hit it?

It's tough luck I'm afraid

 

[Three]

It's tough luck I'm afraid

Sorry could you expand?

 

[NorfolkShaun]

What if he tried to miss it but hit it?

I may stand corrected but sure you have to intend to hit the ball.

Saw a guy hit the ball on a practice swing once. Simply re-teed the ball and carried on as the ball is not in play until you intend to hit it. (this is only the case off the tee)

 

[Three]

I may stand corrected but sure you have to intend to hit the ball.

Saw a guy hit the ball on a practice swing once. Simply re-teed the ball and carried on as the ball is not in play until you intend to hit it. (this is only the case off the tee)

I would agree.
If someone starts their swing and then pulls out of trying to hit the ball, they haven't made a stroke. I'm guessing that if they are not making a stroke and they hit the ball by mistake, it's the same as accidentally hitting it with a practice swing.

But there might be a precedent that's contradicts that.

 

[Spuddy]

14/1.5 if you try to miss the ball but fail to do so (ie you still hit it) then the stroke counts and you play it as it lies

 

[MashieNiblick]

I would agree.
If someone starts their swing and then pulls out of trying to hit the ball, they haven't made a stroke. I'm guessing that if they are not making a stroke and they hit the ball by mistake, it's the same as accidentally hitting it with a practice swing.

But there might be a precedent that's contradicts that.

According to the following Decision, unless I'm missing something, it would appear that it does count as a stroke, even though there was no intent to hit the ball, which surprises me given the definition of a stroke.

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e. he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

Any doubt regarding the player’s intent must be resolved against the player.

I guess otherwise it is simply too easy for someone to say they didn't intend to hit the ball.

 

[Fish]

According to the following Decision, unless I'm missing something, it would appear that it does count as a stroke, even though there was no intent to hit the ball, which surprises me given the definition of a stroke.

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e. he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

Any doubt regarding the player’s intent must be resolved against the player.

I guess otherwise it is simply too easy for someone to say they didn't intend to hit the ball.

The difference here in the example is that the ball fell off the tee and as such moved, surely that's enough to confirm that the stroke was not intentional, your hardly going to try to hit it as its moved to a new position so any striking of the ball was unintentional and an accident!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The difference here in the example is that the ball fell off the tee and as such moved, surely that's enough to confirm that the stroke was not intentional, your hardly going to try to hit it as its moved to a new position so any striking of the ball was unintentional and an accident!

I agree Robin, just hard to prove intent or not, isn't it 😃

 

[Spuddy]

I agree Robin, just hard to prove intent or not, isn't it 

It's no different from a ball sitting up in long grass. During your downswing, the ball drops to the ground due to a gust of wind. You try to stop your swing but clip the top of your ball. It's bad luck but the shot still counts

 

[Fish]

It's no different from a ball sitting up in long grass. During your downswing, the ball drops to the ground due to a gust of wind. You try to stop your swing but clip the top of your ball. It's bad luck but the shot still counts

I think its a very different scenario when on the tee because unlike the situation your describing, the ball isn't already in play!

 

[Spuddy]

I think its a very different scenario when on the tee because unlike the situation your describing, the ball isn't already in play!

It's in play as soon as you hit it. What happens if you try to miss it but still catch it reasonably clean and it goes 50yds down the fairway? There has to be a clear point where you go from no stroke to stroke and the only real way of doing that is if the ball moves.

 

[Fish]

It's in play as soon as you hit it. What happens if you try to miss it but still catch it reasonably clean and it goes 50yds down the fairway? There has to be a clear point where you go from no stroke to stroke and the only real way of doing that is if the ball moves.

I'm pretty sure there was a query on here some time ago and the experts came back and stated that even in s practice swing if it was obvious that it was a practice swing and you caught the ball, irrelevant of how far it went, it wasn't a stroke or a penalty and could be replaced, I'd see this as exactly the same because the ball moved/fell off the tee!

 

[Three]

I'm pretty sure there was a query on here some time ago and the experts came back and stated that even in s practice swing if it was obvious that it was a practice swing and you caught the ball, irrelevant of how far it went, it wasn't a stroke or a penalty and could be replaced, I'd see this as exactly the same because the ball moved/fell off the tee!

I can see the difference.

One is a practice swing, hit the ball on the tee, no problem.

However the other isn't a practice swing, you've started the action to make a stroke. If you bail out, no problem, but if you try and bail out but hit the ball, it's a stroke.

A bit like a baseball swing, if the batter checks his swing it's OK, but if his bat goes past a certain point it's counted as an attempt to hit (even though he didn't attempt but there has to be a defining line).

 

[Spuddy]

I can see the difference.

One is a practice swing, hit the ball on the tee, no problem.

However the other isn't a practice swing, you've started the action to make a stroke. If you bail out, no problem, but if you try and bail out but hit the ball, it's a stroke.

A bit like a baseball swing, if the batter checks his swing it's OK, but if his bat goes past a certain point it's counted as an attempt to hit (even though he didn't attempt but there has to be a defining line).

Exactly. That point in golf is when the club reaches the ball as per the definition of 'stroke'.