Bad Lessons / Dont work for you

[Norrin Radd]

lessons, I see a lot of golfers having lessons at my club ,they have been having them since before I was a member ,now there is nothing wrong in that ,its their money and they can spend it on what they like ,the thing that gets me is that most of them are rubbish golfers ,[im not saying im brilliant]and that all the lessons they have had seem to amount to bugger all. their swings look like an octopus putting on a jumper in a phone box ,and their h/caps never seem to change .
Im not saying lessons dont work but even reading this thread people have posted about having had lessons for a good few years but are still playing off a high h/cap .is it because they are bad students ,or is it bad teachers ?,or is it that they would be five shots higher in h/cap if they hadnt had the lessons?
and no I have never had a lesson so cant really say they work or not ,but i am just reading between the lines of many posters who have spent a small fortune on getting nowhere.
its only my opinion ,its not gospel so feel free to to shoot me down if you think im wrong .
i will add that there are golfers at my club ,[generally younger ones ] that have lessons and they are off single digits.

 

[Depreston]

lessons, I see a lot of golfers having lessons at my club ,they have been having them since before I was a member ,now there is nothing wrong in that ,its their money and they can spend it on what they like ,the thing that gets me is that most of them are rubbish golfers ,[im not saying im brilliant]and that all the lessons they have had seem to amount to bugger all. their swings look like an octopus putting on a jumper in a phone box ,and their h/caps never seem to change .
Im not saying lessons dont work but even reading this thread people have posted about having had lessons for a good few years but are still playing off a high h/cap .is it because they are bad students ,or is it bad teachers ?,or is it that they would be five shots higher in h/cap if they hadnt had the lessons?
and no I have never had a lesson so cant really say they work or not ,but i am just reading between the lines of many posters who have spent a small fortune on getting nowhere.
its only my opinion ,its not gospel so feel free to to shoot me down if you think im wrong .
i will add that there are golfers at my club ,[generally younger ones ] that have lessons and they are off single digits.

Have you ever seen these lads practice?

 

[louise_a]

I have had lessons for the last 4 years, not a lot maybe 5 during the winter and the odd one during the season, I have always improved with them until the winter last year. I asked him if he could get me more distance but I just couldn't do what he was trying to teach me, and as a result last season was a shocker.

I think I have now got my swing back to how it was 18 months ago.

I don't put this problem down to the pro but down to my inability to learn what he was trying to teach me.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Have you ever seen these lads practice?

.
some do some dont ,the donts are just wasting their hard earned ,the others are quite often at the range and use the range to warm up before a comp.they still get no better though,maybe they are just not built for sports.

 

[Curls]

There was a video posted recently of Rory McIlroy talking about how he practices. He was asked why, in his opinion, many casual golfers don't really improve over time. He said it's because when you learn something new it's very difficult to stick with it, at the moment he's weakening his grip and has to fight it daily. He will hit 1000s of balls and every time focus on his grip. He hates it, but knows that ultimately it's the way to improve. In short, he said, people just don't stick to what they've been taught cos it's too easy to slip back into old habits. Plus we don't have the time and facilities these guys do.

I'm quite sure there are some poor teachers, and I know for a fact there are some good ones (Bobmac for example), but for my money the students ability to learn and stick with the uncomfortable in order to improve is probably the overriding factor. To say "coaching doesn't work" is to rubbish everything every sport is built on.

Natural talent, even Rorys, needs to be coached and practiced at levels none of us will ever understand.

 

[Sportlad]

Very good point, and it applies to most things really. It's so difficult to alter your habits when you are hardwired to do things a certain way.

I'm inclined to believe that making slight alterations is even more of a challenge for established pros, as they will have it so many balls a certain way, therefore their muscle memory will be more entrenched, so to speak.

 

[garyinderry]

I think it works both ways. Half an hour isn't really long enough to get to the root of people's faults.

People then go away and try to work on what they have been told but without video they don't really know if they are actually doing what they think they are doing.


The lessons are not long enough and people don't practice what they have been told enough.

 

[AMcC]

People then go away and try to work on what they have been told but without video they don't really know if they are actually doing what they think they are doing.


.

Have to agree on this one, it's much easier with them standing there then showing you what you are doing on the screen.

One good point about the guy I go to, is he says just send me any videos between lessons to have a look at. Which would be great if i would actually take some.

 

[Coffey]

You need to really practice what you have been taught to even start to notice a difference.

I started getting lessons about 2 years ago now and have had about 12, this has seen my handicap drop by 5 shots and my consistency improve drastically. Hoping to drop the handicap a good bit this year as well.

The pro I go to even said it is great to see someone practice what they have been taught as he gets so many people who expect to be shown what to do and then it just work on the course. I like to get to the range at least once a week and sometimes 2/3 times.

I remember reading that it takes about 1000 shots at doing something to get it to start to feel natural. And that is fully focusing on what you are doing and ingraining the change into your swing. Most of us do not have the time to spend 1000 shots practicing one part of our game, not to mention the rest of it.

I do agree that there are bad pros out there but there are bad students as well who are looking for an easy fix, and when they cant find it, they just go back to doing what feels natural to them.

 

[Jensen]

Jim Hardy states in "Plane Truth for golfers"

The flight of the ball will be your guide. If you are doing something better, the ball is doing something better. If the flight of your ball does not improve, it means you do not understand the instruction clearly, you are not doing what you are being asked to do, or what you are being asked to do is wrong.

In addition Peter Jacobsen says in the book " There is a tremendous amount of confusion in the teaching of golf today, and it exists on all levels"

As they say in America, be a wise consumer

 

[ScienceBoy]

Had my 2nd lesson of the year so far.

Not played any course golf at all in between, just range sessions. Not a memeber and the weather is still too rubbish for me to get out there. Instead ive been hitting the range 2-3 times a week and I worked on body turn only. In the last 4 weeks I have refrained from working on wrist set etc, just half swings with a correct body turn.

Pro was very impressed with my progress, a few drills later and I was nailing irons.

Maybe next winter I would suggest Homer tries this, don't play golf for 3 months and instead focus on the swing. Not playing frees you up from the need to get a swing working between lessons, which takes you away from what you are trying to improve.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Back from a lesson tonight and hitting it nicely. Got a drill to work on, and have got the takeaway working better, BUT I've also got a lesson with my previous pro to get a second opinion on where he thinks my swing is and what needs looking at. If he correlates what I am working on then fine, the current pro is clearly on the right path but if he says x, y, or z are out it begs the question what is my current guy working on. At the moment I'm in a good place after working on my swing post lesson to good effect. Lets see what happens at the weekend

 

[chellie]

Back from a lesson tonight and hitting it nicely. Got a drill to work on, and have got the takeaway working better, BUT I've also got a lesson with my previous pro to get a second opinion on where he thinks my swing is and what needs looking at. If he correlates what I am working on then fine, the current pro is clearly on the right path but if he says x, y, or z are out it begs the question what is my current guy working on. At the moment I'm in a good place after working on my swing post lesson to good effect. Lets see what happens at the weekend

Surely it confuses matters having lessons with two different pro's

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Surely it confuses matters having lessons with two different pro's

That is something that has crossed my mind and the lesson with the other guy has been booked as a swing MOT before the season rather than working on a flaw or fix a specific issue. I just want a general assessment and a few pointers/ideas of what isn't right, with the idea of then using him going forward to fix it

 

[richy]

Back from a lesson tonight and hitting it nicely. Got a drill to work on, and have got the takeaway working better, BUT I've also got a lesson with my previous pro to get a second opinion on where he thinks my swing is and what needs looking at. If he correlates what I am working on then fine, the current pro is clearly on the right path but if he says x, y, or z are out it begs the question what is my current guy working on. At the moment I'm in a good place after working on my swing post lesson to good effect. Lets see what happens at the weekend

Sounds like a recipe for disaster and will only mess up your head even more.

 

[garyinderry]

Did you record this lesson? I've enjoyed watching them so far and given my honest opinion.


Very interested to hear what this second pro thinks.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Surely it confuses matters having lessons with two different pro's

Not necessarily if their teaching methods are similar, especially if they teach the individual & not the swing. I've had lessons from several pros & in one case a pro had me do something I couldn't understand by explaining it in a different way from the other pro. I've also taken away something useful from most of the pros I've had lessons from.

On the other hand, & Homer will understand this, if you get a pro trying to get you to swing in two planes when your natural inclination is to swing in one plane it's a recipe for disaster. Jus ask my fellow forummer Jensen.

 

[Garush34]

Back from a lesson tonight and hitting it nicely. Got a drill to work on, and have got the takeaway working better, BUT I've also got a lesson with my previous pro to get a second opinion on where he thinks my swing is and what needs looking at. If he correlates what I am working on then fine, the current pro is clearly on the right path but if he says x, y, or z are out it begs the question what is my current guy working on. At the moment I'm in a good place after working on my swing post lesson to good effect. Lets see what happens at the weekend

Homer, can I just ask, what happens if your old pro does not agree with what the new pro is doing?

 

[richy]

Homer, can I just ask, what happens if your old pro does not agree with what the new pro is doing?

His head will be even in more of a mess and he'll have to get a third opinion

 

[Capella]

Actually, in my experience, it can also be quite good to have a different pro's view on things sometimes. Sometime, even though you do understand and appreciate what your pro is trying to get you to do, you just can't get it from your brain to your muscles. Having it explained by someone else, in different terms, can help with that. Or, even if the second pro seems to be working on something completely different in your swing, those two elements might click together nicely. I've had lessons with 6 different pros over the past three years (since I mostly get my lessons when I go away for a holiday somewhere) and even though each of them had a different focus, they have never really contradicted each other. For example while one mentioned I was standing too far from the ball, another advised me to stand more upright but bring my hands lower. Both were seeing and trying to corrrect the same flaw there, but the second one was much easier for me to work with (and doing what he asked for automatically made me stand closer to the ball).

So, Homer, I can only recommend to ignore all the doubters and nay-sayers and just suck in as much knowledge and ideas from both pros as you can.:thup: