SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
So what happens if they're not physically able?
Assisted Dying
- Thread starter SaintHacker
- Start date
There are options to press buttons and I understand, in extreme cases, there is some suggestion that eye movement can be used.
Bottom line, it’s assisted suicide. So if the patient can’t administer it can’t happen.
williamalex1
Money List Winner
I'm convinced there's already an assisted dying policy in place.
I've watched 4 family members slip away peacefully in hospitals over the years, all were in an induced comas.
If anything happened to me, I wouldnt want resussitated .
I've watched 4 family members slip away peacefully in hospitals over the years, all were in an induced comas.
If anything happened to me, I wouldnt want resussitated .
Foxholer
Blackballed
That (dying inevitably, but 'peacefully') is not what I'd consider 'assisted dying'. To there's a difference between making the transition as peaceful as possible and 'hurrying' the transition.
williamalex1
Money List Winner
I said I was convinced.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I remain not having a settled opinion on this.
If I reflect on my mother’s final 15months, 4 months in when she was still pretty much fully aware of her situation, in her deep despair she might well have said Yes if the option was offered, and may have asked us to consent if she couldn’t. That she then had a further 6 months of reasonable but ever decreasing awareness, during which time she seemed to reach a form of acceptance and we with her wider family and friends had some nice and moving times together…it is possible that none of that would have happened.
And in her final months I was able to do for my mum just what my dad would have wished of their eldest son…I cared and loved her every day that I could - how much of that time she was aware of me I do not know, but I do know that very often when I visited in the later months, and when we looked through old family photos, her eyes would show a little bit of sparkle and a smile would break across her face. That she may well no longer have appreciated and understood quite what was happening to her, or indeed did not quite know who I was and who was in the photos, but I did not see the despair of the earlier months…and she left us peacefully.
And so on my limited personal experience as well as some wider concerns around a door such as this when opened slightly will only through time get opened wider - my instinct is No to what is proposed, but as I say, I do not have a settled view.
If I reflect on my mother’s final 15months, 4 months in when she was still pretty much fully aware of her situation, in her deep despair she might well have said Yes if the option was offered, and may have asked us to consent if she couldn’t. That she then had a further 6 months of reasonable but ever decreasing awareness, during which time she seemed to reach a form of acceptance and we with her wider family and friends had some nice and moving times together…it is possible that none of that would have happened.
And in her final months I was able to do for my mum just what my dad would have wished of their eldest son…I cared and loved her every day that I could - how much of that time she was aware of me I do not know, but I do know that very often when I visited in the later months, and when we looked through old family photos, her eyes would show a little bit of sparkle and a smile would break across her face. That she may well no longer have appreciated and understood quite what was happening to her, or indeed did not quite know who I was and who was in the photos, but I did not see the despair of the earlier months…and she left us peacefully.
And so on my limited personal experience as well as some wider concerns around a door such as this when opened slightly will only through time get opened wider - my instinct is No to what is proposed, but as I say, I do not have a settled view.
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
When my mum had a massive stroke a couple of years ago, it became clear very quickly that there was nothing that could be done and that she would pass away in the next couple of days.
What I was not prepared for was the withdrawal of all water and food resulting in Mum dying 3 days later from organ failure bought on by dehydration.
I was with her when she passed, she was sedated and had no idea what was happening. But for me it was a traumatic experience, call me selfish, but in my opinion it would have been better for everyone, when it was clear that there was no hope, if she had been given an injection and allowed to slip away.
Society would have given a pet dog a quick humane end, but not humans
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Agree absolutely, H, but you offer your view as if the goalposts have been moved.
They are where they've always been. It is not "the choice of others"
No one has suggested it is. It is someone of sound mind , with safeguards to ensure the decision is genuine, and who is verified as terminally ill, being allowed to ask for medical assistance to die a peaceful painfree death.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Why , oh, why is there an objection to that.?
Why then, does the old chestnut of a scenario -where a relative rocks up to a Dr with a piece of paper saying," Here, my mother/father/whoever has signed this-take my word for it, and do the honours , will you?" keep being put forward as a counter argument against assisted dying?
Nobody is advocating anything remotely like that.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed, and why my view is not settled. I have not heard what the Archbishop of C has said on the matter, however I suspect my thinking might not be that far from his as I find my views generally align pretty well with his. I shall go have a listen.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
I don't get that. If "indeed" means you agree with what I've written, what's there to be unsettled about?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
‘Indeed‘ as in I understand the logic of that point of view but I am not (yet) convinced that my instinct is wrong.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
I went to see a PP wife in hospital. She had a stroke, it was a big one. She was in a coma for 6 months and passed away peacefully without ever waking again and saying goodbye. My PP was grieving for 6 months. He was suffering more than her. The problem with strokes is they are all so different. Andrew Marr is back on telly hounding politicians with an excellent state of recovery. Other stroke victims are the wrong side of the pearly gates. There in lies the problem and solution of this particular stroke scenario. It is not one shoe fits all.
Hospitals, Drs, consultants, surgeons etc already make decisions as to whether a patient could or should die. Some Patients in hospitals today already have DNR ( Do not resuscitate) or the equivalent at the side of there records. Why? Because if they were to “ recover” they would have no quality of life. The end result is the same. For me it is the same with assisted dying. Why are we prolonging suffering, and I do not just mean the individual involved but family as well.
Oh ah, nice to have a discussion without falling out ?
Hospitals, Drs, consultants, surgeons etc already make decisions as to whether a patient could or should die. Some Patients in hospitals today already have DNR ( Do not resuscitate) or the equivalent at the side of there records. Why? Because if they were to “ recover” they would have no quality of life. The end result is the same. For me it is the same with assisted dying. Why are we prolonging suffering, and I do not just mean the individual involved but family as well.
Oh ah, nice to have a discussion without falling out ?
Don Barzini
Assistant Pro
Puts me in mind of a meme I saw Ricky Gervais share on Facebook. It went something along the lines of:
Your religion says you can’t do something - OK
Your religion says I can’t do something - Sod you
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
He’s spot on.
Religion should be kept out of it imo.
It’s about a choice.
If your religious then don’t do it. That’s your choice.
But don’t stop anyone else having the choice.
stefanovic
Medal Winner
I agree that religious leaders should keep their noses out of this.
Religion is always based on the supernatural.
While you are free to believe this, there are others who understand reality.
How many people have ever existed before ourselves?
One answer given is close to 100 billion.
That represents an unimaginable amount of suffering leading up to death and just about all of them never had the drugs we have today.
Number of people just like us who died in religious wars inspired by clerics and holy books?
Nobody knows for sure but we can be certain it runs into countless millions.
Which means that no religion can ever claim to stand on the moral high ground.
Religion is always based on the supernatural.
While you are free to believe this, there are others who understand reality.
How many people have ever existed before ourselves?
One answer given is close to 100 billion.
That represents an unimaginable amount of suffering leading up to death and just about all of them never had the drugs we have today.
Number of people just like us who died in religious wars inspired by clerics and holy books?
Nobody knows for sure but we can be certain it runs into countless millions.
Which means that no religion can ever claim to stand on the moral high ground.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Sometimes, a few words says it all. Like above.
We have all waffled on here, using many sentences to put forward our arguments about assisted dying...for and against. The opponents to it haven't glaringly pushed their religion as being the reason they are against (but it seemed likely).
But the most telling summing up of our "debate" is there above.
And as true a statement as I have seen on this forum.
toyboy54
Challenge Tour Pro
I've put a 'Like against Don Barzinis post quoting Ricky Gervais--
BUT, having had words with St. Peter about the accommodation on offer (on at least 5 occasions--and no, I'm not boasting!-it's in my records!),SWMBO and I are both agreed that an injection/ syringe full of air or even a razor blade across the wrist, carotid artery--these 2 would be messy,-----would be just the job!!
I would have no hesitation whatsoever! Take that any way you want
BUT, having had words with St. Peter about the accommodation on offer (on at least 5 occasions--and no, I'm not boasting!-it's in my records!),SWMBO and I are both agreed that an injection/ syringe full of air or even a razor blade across the wrist, carotid artery--these 2 would be messy,-----would be just the job!!
I would have no hesitation whatsoever! Take that any way you want
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
My understanding of this is that it will only be possible once a person has a terminal illness and have 6 months or less to live.
I don't understand the desire to prolong someones suffering and death just to appease society. I certainly don't want to be a shadow trapped in a useless shell.
I don't understand the desire to prolong someones suffering and death just to appease society. I certainly don't want to be a shadow trapped in a useless shell.
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williamalex1
Money List Winner
There's a few on here that would gladly assist you Jimbo ?I've put a 'Like against Don Barzinis post quoting Ricky Gervais--
BUT, having had words with St. Peter about the accommodation on offer (on at least 5 occasions--and no, I'm not boasting!-it's in my records!),SWMBO and I are both agreed that an injection/ syringe full of air or even a razor blade across the wrist, carotid artery--these 2 would be messy,-----would be just the job!!
I would have no hesitation whatsoever! Take that any way you want
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Who do you think that most people go to when they are in need of spiritual support…now let me think…ah yes.
Whether some on here and many out there like it or not, many people seek the support and advice of their own religious leader, if they have one, when the very difficult sort of decision we are talking about has to be made. The view of the religious leaders is therefore still very important - IMO - as they give a different perspective that can be helpful to some - perhaps many.
And btw I get pretty sick of hearing and reading all religion, denominations and traditions being damned as one as a result of the warped views and actions of some - often a very long time ago - whilst the huge amount of positive, beneficial and caring work that is done by the active religious community in the present day is ignored as if it was irrelevant.
Anyway…just had to get that off my chest…?
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