Arms in the backswing

[virtuocity]

Any chance those who know a few things about the swing could watch this short video and critically analyse it?

[video=youtube;_JES-8I-VAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk[/video]

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

He has got it completely wrong! You have to take the club BACK first THEN up, totally the opposite way round.

Here is a video showing the correct way to do it :thup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-MBRd834_Q

 

[JustOne]

Any chance those who know a few things about the swing could watch this short video and critically analyse it?

What do you want to know about it? It's correct that we don't swing the club, it's a lift and a rotation (pivot around the spine) combined. You'd need to add a decent address spine angle to that movement though to have the shoulders 'on plane'.

 

[JustOne]

Not to go off topic (yeh right!!) but this vid is a good one to compliment the one you posted....

[video=youtube;r99IBLCl3ys]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r99IBLCl3ys[/video]

 

[CMAC]

Any chance those who know a few things about the swing could watch this short video and critically analyse it?

[video=youtube;_JES-8I-VAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk[/video]

Faldo had a 'similar' practice regime which worked very well

 

[CMAC]

Ernies box 'thought' (at the Scottish Open at Loch Lomond, I watched him) has stood me and many 'casters' in good stead

 

[Father_Ted]

Any chance those who know a few things about the swing could watch this short video and critically analyse it?

[video=youtube;_JES-8I-VAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk[/video]

by no means an expert but with 8 other references its a very popular video on here

 

[virtuocity]

What do you want to know about it? It's correct that we don't swing the club, it's a lift and a rotation (pivot around the spine) combined. You'd need to add a decent address spine angle to that movement though to have the shoulders 'on plane'.

So there's NO 'sideways' movement of the club? When I try this, I feel like club is taken way outside.

 

[dejf]

Maybe I don't understand what he is trying to say, but I don't buy it.

He says that the arms are going up in front of the body and not to the side. At 0:52, we can see his arms go slightly to the right of his face, so it is no really centralized motion. But OK, he does not say it should be perfectly symmetrical, no problem so far. So, let's say he is saying that your arms go up and only very slightly to the right so that they end like at 0:52. It seems to me like the right palm is on the right side of his head looking from the front.

But what happens then? Just before he ads rotation to that (at 1:07) he lifts his arms up and they are even more to the right. OK, so then he adds rotation. But let's look at 1:19 from the side.
Where are his arms now? It seems to me that they are in completely different position than in 0:52 and even 1:07. Try to imagine that you take the guy from 1:19 and you fix his arms and just rotate the torso back. He would not end in 0:52 or 1:07 position.

I believe that when he adds the rotation, he moves the arms very much to the right.
So if he is saying that there is no movement to the side, I don't agree.

 

[JustOne]

So there's NO 'sideways' movement of the club? When I try this, I feel like club is taken way outside.

It doesn't matter if you FEEL like you swing the club - what is actually happening is what the guy in the video says.

If you feel like you are taking the club outside when trying what he says then that would be because you have too much lift and not enough rotation... but I wouldn't worry about it too much, that video (although factual) is just an interesting pointer for people who tend to have NO turn and simply swing the club around behind themselves with their arms. Most people who try what he says do it with NO forward spine tilt (they do it standing bolt upright) and as a result get their shoulders all out of kilter and their arms working too high............. #pinch of salt.

89 pages about the 'arm swing illusion' here....
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/832733-the-arm-swing-illusion-jim-waldrons-swing-philosophy/ :thup:

 

[ScienceBoy]

Pretty old but good video to dispel the myths.

It does emphases the importance of the body rotation! All "arm" swingers need to see this video.

 

[the_coach]

the arms definitely don't travel sideways - unless they are being moved independently so not connected to any rotational movement of the body.

things that can happen from thinking this happens

moving them independently away the arms going to get inside & back ways to much so behind then you going to have to lift them independently up, this means the shoulders don't turn at 90º to the address spine angle - but tilt some in a 'false turn' no real rotation.

or from address the arms get lifted up from the get go left arm moving out away from the chest & up & again no real turn, no rotation to speak of.

or the arms & upper body + head move laterally right (this also takes the lower body laterally right so a sway trailside) as folks search for some 'width' in the backswing but this is a false width as it's again disconnected from the rotation - which is a big problem as the golf motion is largely rotary.
this center of mass going laterally right so feels like there is a weight transfer, but the weight is the mass being shifted rightways so usually to the outside of the right foot.

golf motion is arms moving with the large muscles of the chest in a rotational movement, the weight is moved by rotation not a lateral shift right, so the rotation is moving the center of pressure into the inside of the right foot, not the center of mass shifting laterally.

because the ball is on the ground we gotta lean over - spine tilt forwards from the hip sockets which creates the angle to get the club behind the ball on the ground at address.

then the body rotates around this spine angle taking the arms with it. the arms are pretty much from the get-go because of this going 'upwards' not sideways. the left hand setting 'upwards' on the snuff box joint at base of thumb places the club head 'up' & also because the right arm folds upwards (right elbow pointing downwards) with the body rotation continuing to the top, the club ends up at the top of the swing position.

hands, handle, clubhead travel in an curved arc, move on inclined planes in a circular motion.

the arms appearing to move sideways is an illusion.

similar to the illusion that the arms are swinging forwards to the ball, they don't - they swing down. the weight starting the downswing from the ground up plus the hip clearing & the body rotating move the club through the ball, arms are just moving downwards.

it's a misunderstanding of these two things that give a lot of folks problems with plane, AoA & swing direction.

you need connection arms to body, left upper arm staying connected to the left pec as you turn away, it's still connected at the top of the swing.
then at transition in a top swing action that pressure between upper left arm & pec increases - but at this point a good bunch of folks have no connection at all as the arms are moving outwards away from the body which is why then they have to swing down steeply & to leftfield through the ball

[video=youtube;u8CUum7QDSk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CUum7QDSk[/video]

 

[sawtooth]

Pretty old but good video to dispel the myths.

It does emphases the importance of the body rotation! All "arm" swingers need to see this video.

Arm swingers still rotate - I know I do, how else would the club get into a good position at the top?

 

[the_coach]

[video=youtube;QzbCXhG9tY8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbCXhG9tY8[/video]