Are you seeing clubs opening memberships this year?

clubchamp98

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Yeah.....charge MORE joining fees! Make the newbies pay! Even if you didn't have to pay a joining fee......

You do realize I was stating that putting in NEW joining fees was just taking advantage of the new popularity.....yes?

I give up....people just read into things what they want ....
I see what your saying
if others havnt payed a JF why should a new member.
The money helps the clubs I guess, but anywhere else that’s profiteering.
 

Liverpoolphil

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Joining fees and reintroducing ones are 9/10 a way to help the club bring in money for improvements to the course especially when it’s members clubs when they aren’t looking to get a profit to fit into someone’s pocket

There will of course be the odd private owned club where someone will be looked to fill their own pocket and take advantage of the current boom
 

IanM

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Yeah.....charge MORE joining fees! Make the newbies pay! Even if you didn't have to pay a joining fee......

You do realize I was stating that putting in NEW joining fees was just taking advantage of the new popularity.....yes?

I give up....people just read into things what they want ....

I think we got it.

Clubs introducing joining fees at a time of high demand could be seen as taking the mick. Especially at proprietary clubs who are maximising profits. Even if they are, and the course is not worth it, folk won't pay it. So a balance needs to be found.

You certainly don't see them introduced when demand is low

Similarly, Newport put green fees up considerably. Not to fleece anyone, but to manage demand. Full membership, not much space for visitors.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Yes I can see both sides of the debate.
but not a great fan of JFs
I perhaps wouldn‘t be if I was looking to join a club but was uncertain as to how long I’d be able to stay a member (moving area or other commitments arising). But such considerations are for deciding what golf club I’d be looking to join. And if I chose to join one with a JF then I will have decided that, on balance, the club and course are worth the risk of me having to leave sooner than I might have hoped.
 

clubchamp98

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I perhaps wouldn‘t be if I was looking to join a club but was uncertain as to how long I’d be able to stay a member (moving area or other commitments arising). But such considerations are for deciding what golf club I’d be looking to join. And if I chose to join one with a JF then I will have decided that, on balance, the club and course are worth the risk of me having to leave sooner than I might have hoped.
Yes I do see the loyalty to the club.

but I know two players who didn’t join my club because we have one.
initial layout is £2600 to join that’s prohibitively high atm.
so it must be putting people off joining clubs and that is losing players into the sport.
 

Wabinez

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Not a fan of joining fees, but can absolutely see why clubs are asking for them.

I kind of view it is a thing where if you are serious about joining a club and will #getinvolved, then the joining fee isn't an issue....however, if you just want to bounce about clubs, you will hate them.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Yes I do see the loyalty to the club.

but I know two players who didn’t join my club because we have one.
initial layout is £2600 to join that’s prohibitively high atm.
so it must be putting people off joining clubs and that is losing players into the sport.
TBH if your two acquaintances may be 'lost to the sport' because of the JFs of your club then I might suggest they are not that bothered about the sport...are there not other clubs in their locality that do not have a JF, or that have a lower and more acceptable initial outlay?

Certainly they are lost to your club - at least for the time being and until the attractions of your club become too hard to resist. It is the same with market forces the country over. If the product being offered by your club is considered by the potential member as providing 'value for money', and if there is a JF that the potential member understands what use JFs are put to, then it simply comes down to customer choice. And it has to be said that simply being a member of a golf club - JFs or no JFs - is a privilege that is prohibitively high and unaffordable for a huge swathe of the population. Its a pity your friends can't join you at your club but in the end it is their choice.

If I want a car but I can't afford to buy a Ferrari, I don't not buy any car at all and stop driving.
 
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clubchamp98

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TBH if your two acquaintances may be 'lost to the sport' because of the JFs of your club then I might suggest they are not that bothered about the sport...are there not other clubs in their locality that do not have a JF, or that have a lower and more acceptable initial outlay?

Certainly they are lost to your club - at least for the time being and until the attractions of your club become too hard to resist. It is the same with market forces the country over. If the product being offered by your club is considered by the potential member as providing 'value for money', and if there is a JF that the potential member understands what use JFs are put to, then it simply comes down to customer choice. And it has to be said that simply being a member of a golf club - JFs or no JFs - is a privilege that is prohibitively high and unaffordable for a huge swathe of the population. Its a pity your friends can't join you at your club but in the end it is their choice.

If I want a car but I can't afford to buy a Ferrari, I don't not buy any car at all and stop driving.
Yes as I said I do see both sides.
one thing that annoyed a lot of people is if they were under 30 yrs of age or female they would not have to pay a JF.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Yes as I said I do see both sides.
one thing that annoyed a lot of people is if they were under 30 yrs of age or female they would not have to pay a JF.
...and again...if I am looking to join a club what does it matter to me - what business is it of mine - whether or not a club offers no-JF membership to under 30s. That is the club's prerogative. It would remain my choice whether the sub plus JF provided me with VfM.

That said - existing members will always have a valid question to ask their club as to why under 30s do not have to pay a JF (if that is what the club decides for that age group) since no JF reduces new member revenue and therefore the funds available to spend unless an increase in subs for existing members covers that off. B ut that's for the club and the existing members to debate
 

sunshine

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Yes I do see the loyalty to the club.

but I know two players who didn’t join my club because we have one.
initial layout is £2600 to join that’s prohibitively high atm.
so it must be putting people off joining clubs and that is losing players into the sport.

Isn't this just a case of managing demand? If the club is busy and full, the JF lowers demand. I assume the club doesn't need those two new players because there is enough interest from others. If you need more members, you can just reduce the JF in the future.
 

sunshine

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I should that JFs at our place go into "reserves " for capital projects, and no where near revenue in the accounts.

Hmm. Sounds wrong to me. JFs should be classed as revenue in the accounts, because that's what they are!
 

IanM

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Hmm. Sounds wrong to me. JFs should be classed as revenue in the accounts, because that's what they are!

I can check the exact accountancy processes, but even if booked to revenue in year 1, they are not treated as such thereafter. (But my intention was to demonstrate the treatment)

They are shown as separate item in the accounts and not available for operating expenses.
 
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sunshine

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I can check the exact accountancy processes, but even if booked to revenue in year 1, they are not treated as such thereafter. (But my intention was to demonstrate the treatment)

They are shown as separate item in the accounts and not available for operating expenses.

Can't believe I'm having a debate on accounting rules on a golf forum :ROFLMAO:

I assumed the revenue must be recognised when the member joins as it is a non refundable fee (even if the fee is paid in installments). However there is a choice available and the club can also recognise the revenue over the average period of membership e.g. 3 years, to reflect the fact that the joining fee is paying for services which are delivered over 3 years.
 

IanM

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I am not an accountant and know nowt about it, other than when I look at our "books," joining fees are clearly separate entries from subs. They don't appear in the profit/loss accounts. (We are a member owned club if that makes a difference) How that is termed in legal and bean-counter parlance I know not.

As I said earlier, our club always had them (not cheap either) and no sign of them going.

On the upside, they limit churn, but on the downside are a financial barrier to entry to those less well off. If a talented junior couldn't stay on for financial reasons, there is a mechanism to assist.
 

Albo

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Absolutely bang on.
I've been paying a levi to buy land since 2009. Members who have joined recently haven't paid as long as me. Do I bother, no I don't, as it is an absolute privilege to be a member of my club.
This is a really interesting point to me, it being a privilege to be a member of your club.
I don’t see it like that at all, I am a paying customer (that’s the way I see it, not disagreeing with your point), and as such the privilege is with the club to have my custom rather than the other way around.
If the product that they offer isn’t of the standard I deem acceptable for the money it costs me, I’d be off in a flash.
I didn’t mean to be contentious, genuinely interesting post for me
 

r0wly86

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A couple of clubs near me have gone from totally full up with waiting lists, to advertising membership and in one case cutting the joining fee all together
 
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