Another Heated Debate - Climate Change, Reality Or Propaganda?

[Foxholer]

I do find it rather ironic that the melting of the ice-cap, perhaps caused by excessive use of fossil fuels, is opening up further fields of fossil fuels!

Here's a serious p-take on greed! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbrCJfgH8s&feature=related

 

[williamalex1]

i have always wondered what effect mining trillion tons of coal, over hundreds of years and removing trillions of barrels of oil and gas from under our feet and burning it . it must have some effect just by making the big ball lighter, i know it made a difference when they did it with the old golf ball. not too scientific but there you go

 

[JustOne]

I seem to recall hearing something when Mt St Helens erupted that it put more crap into the atmosphere than mankind could do in 100yrs, forget Iceland and countless other eruptions since.

I stand to be corrected on that though but it appears the Earth is quite proficient at ruining itself, as well as healing.

 

[SocketRocket]

Leading Weather Scientists do not all agree that CO2 emissions are warming the earths temperature.

The Earths temperature has not warmed in the last 15 years

According to some sources Polar ice is increasing in some places.

50K years ago the polar ice expanded to cover most of the UK. 35K years ago it retreated much to it's current position. Why did it?? Was it due to increased CO2 emissions from Neanderthals and Mammoths farting? They weren't generating Electricty with coal power stations or buzzing around in BMW's.

Why was 'Global Warming' changed to 'Climate Change'

What has happened to our climate that has not happened before time and time again. In my lifetime it's been Hotter, Colder, Drier, Wetter, Windier and Whiter than we have experienced in the last 20 years.

I have met a lot of very stupid people in my life that have very good academic qualifications.

 

[PIng]

I seem to recall hearing something when Mt St Helens erupted that it put more crap into the atmosphere than mankind could do in 100yrs, forget Iceland and countless other eruptions since.

I stand to be corrected on that though but it appears the Earth is quite proficient at ruining itself, as well as healing.

And yet, I can apparently counteract this pollution by switching to one of those crappy low energy light bulbs! Made in a Chinese factory burning coal!

 

[walshawwhippet]

I can't remain silent on this.
What qualifies me to give my views-degree in earth science.
Is climate change part of the earths natural cycles? Yes.
Is man excellerating these changes? Yes.

Now to clear up a few mis-conceptions:
There is evidence the earth has had periods of glaciation for more than 2 billion yrs.
Plants don't produce co2, they cosume it and produce oxygen as a waste product (photosynthesis)
Dinos didn't produce co2 but methane when farting, but probably much less than the worlds domesticated herds to-day.

Is there more co2 to-day than in the past ? Yes as far as the available evidence tells us(ice cores going back 650k yrs).In all that time co2 never rose above 300 parts per million, that was untill 1950 when we first broke this barrier. Since then levels have continued to rise to our present level of c380 parts per million. Coincedence ? Maybe, but when you review the evidence the general consensus amongst the worlds leading climatologists(not industrialists, or scientists employed by industrialists), is that man is part of the problem. You can't chop down rainforests that consume co2,& burn fossil fuels that release co2 without there being consequencies.
So if you believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas(Venus, hottest planet in solar system), and if you accept that man is likely responsible for the unprecedented levels of co2 in the atmosphere, then the only logical conclusion is that climate change is real and we aint helping.
Of course this is just my view, over views are available.

 

[Foxholer]

I seem to recall hearing something when Mt St Helens erupted that it put more crap into the atmosphere than mankind could do in 100yrs, forget Iceland and countless other eruptions since.

I stand to be corrected on that though but it appears the Earth is quite proficient at ruining itself, as well as healing.

Biggest problem I see is that we are certainly destroying the major 'healer' (forests) at an incredible rate! Ingenuity, and greed, will find ways around the fossil fuel issue. It's the (natural) CO2-->O2 process that needs to be addressed imo.

 

[Foxholer]

And yet, I can apparently counteract this pollution by switching to one of those crappy low energy light bulbs! Made in a Chinese factory burning coal!

Yep. That's complete tokenistic b-s! As is the ridiculous current UK 'recycling' arrangements. I believe both currently cost more in resources than what they 'save'. However, there has to be a start somewhere - remember 'mobile' phones?

 

[Val]

The climate is changing but it ain't our fault, we are however to blame for the fallout from floods. If houses are going to built on or near flood zones then the correct protection has to be in place or as was suggested on another thread more man made reservoirs to collect and hold water.

The water table is higher now and will only get higher unless something is done.

Over to you our government.

 

[Andy]

The question isn't whether or not the ice caps are melting, the question is why, is it us humans or is it part of the Earth's cycle?

At least thats the way I've read it!

Another Heated Debate - Climate Change, Reality Or Propaganda?

Ice disappearing is reality if from what I see on tv.

 

[Andy808]

If we are to blame for global warming can I just ask why is Mars warming at the same rate as earth?
Haven't noticed too many fossil fueled vehicles up there!

 

[Andy]

You have obviously researched this a great deal.

I love the fact that you assume I am ignorant when the last 4 books I have read are on this subject from varying perspectives. What are your credentials relative to your statement about polar bears? In fact, polar bears are coping perfectly well, despite what the BBC may say.

Never assume Snelly, it makes an ass out of you and me!

 

[SocketRocket]

I can't remain silent on this.
What qualifies me to give my views-degree in earth science.
Is climate change part of the earths natural cycles? Yes.
Is man excellerating these changes? Yes.

Now to clear up a few mis-conceptions:
There is evidence the earth has had periods of glaciation for more than 2 billion yrs.
Plants don't produce co2, they cosume it and produce oxygen as a waste product (photosynthesis)
Dinos didn't produce co2 but methane when farting, but probably much less than the worlds domesticated herds to-day.

Is there more co2 to-day than in the past ? Yes as far as the available evidence tells us(ice cores going back 650k yrs).In all that time co2 never rose above 300 parts per million, that was untill 1950 when we first broke this barrier. Since then levels have continued to rise to our present level of c380 parts per million. Coincedence ? Maybe, but when you review the evidence the general consensus amongst the worlds leading climatologists(not industrialists, or scientists employed by industrialists), is that man is part of the problem. You can't chop down rainforests that consume co2,& burn fossil fuels that release co2 without there being consequencies.
So if you believe that co2 is a greenhouse gas(Venus, hottest planet in solar system), and if you accept that man is likely responsible for the unprecedented levels of co2 in the atmosphere, then the only logical conclusion is that climate change is real and we aint helping.
Of course this is just my view, over views are available.

Is this mainly opinion based?

 

[Andy]

Is it not feasible that the polar bears coped perfectly well the last time this happened? However this time mankind is in their way as we've spread to practically every inhabitable surface and likely shoot anything that moves.

I wonder if the polar bears are coping with the depleted fish stock?

Did it happen to the same extent last time? The fact they are still here would suggest they did but for how long at the current rate of ice disappearing?

Think they would be more concerned wIth depleted seal stocks.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The climate is changing but it ain't our fault, we are however to blame for the fallout from floods. If houses are going to built on or near flood zones then the correct protection has to be in place or as was suggested on another thread more man made reservoirs to collect and hold water.

The water table is higher now and will only get higher unless something is done.

Over to you our government.

Thank goodness for that, I thought he was going to blame the Mods for a minute there :rofl:

Fragger

 

[SocketRocket]

Thank goodness for that, I thought he was going to blame the Mods for a minute there :rofl:

Fragger

If he's not then I am!

 

[Val]

Thank goodness for that, I thought he was going to blame the Mods for a minute there :rofl:

Fragger

You have the wrong impression of me, I wouldn't blame all the Mods just Chris and Brendy

 

[chris661]

You have the wrong impression of me, I wouldn't blame all the Mods just Chris and Brendy

 

[Val]

:rofl:

 

[thecraw]

I have just read an interesting book called Watermelons by James Dellingpole and whilst I am not in full agreement with everything he says, broadly speaking, I think he is right. It is worth a read for anyone that has an interest in climate change and the effect that this movement has on our lives. Essentially, the book's aim is to prove the following to be correct rather than something that needs to be imagined:

Imagine if everything you knew about the environment was wrong. Imagine that global warming was something to be desired, not feared. Imagine that organic food, sustainability, biofuels and the WWF were far more harmful to the world and its inhabitants than GM food, industry, oil and ExxonMobil.
Imagine if it didn’t matter one jot how big your carbon footprint was and you could go out and buy as many Hummers as you liked or accumulate as many air miles as you wanted without the need to feel the slightest sliver of guilt about the environmental damage you were causing.
Imagine if carbon dioxide were our friend. Imagine if the world’s biggest mass murderer was a woman who campaigned against chemicals and pesticides, and the world’s biggest savior was the man who saved hundreds of millions from hunger with mutant crops and modern agricultural technologies.

Imagine if for a fraction of the money we’re spending to “combat climate change” we could ensure that no child went hungry or was malnourished, and that everyone in the world had access to clean drinking water. Imagine that "overpopulation” was an illusory problem. Imagine that fossil fuels were a miracle we should cherish—not a curse. Imagine if we could stop worrying about “scarce resources.” Imagine if the polar bears, glaciers, coral reefs, rain forests, Pacific islands, and the polar ice caps were all doing just fine.

Imagine if economic growth, far from destroying the world, made it cleaner, healthier, happier—and with more open spaces.


My view, having researched the subject and read a couple of books including this one, is that climate change as a movement now exists because there are a lot of people making a lot of money out of it. Not much more than that.

The whole issue of climate change and man damaging the planet is flimsy science at best and a front for the left to drive social change through a back door.

I am in short, a climate change denier.

What do you all think? Any yoghurt knitters out there that think we are destroying our lovely planet and are doomed to a weather based armageddon?

Are you Jeremy Clarkson????