And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 15344]

Spot on.

The start of the Premiership started it all off. The money in the game is obscene - if clubs have owners willing to throw billions into the team without having to worry about survival etc then teams like Chelsea and City will have the upper hand. Our owners get a lot of stick because they don't pile in millions of their owne money but they are never going to do it - and most owners will be like that.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The start of the Premiership started it all off. The money in the game is obscene - if clubs have owners willing to throw billions into the team without having to worry about survival etc then teams like Chelsea and City will have the upper hand. Our owners get a lot of stick because they don't pile in millions of their owne money but they are never going to do it - and most owners will be like that.

It was never just about money in the mid to late 90's, I'd say it's only really became about money over the last 10yrs when "investment" groups became owners.

Our owners are a prime example, much more interested in the P&L sheet as opposed to battling to become England's best again.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It was never just about money in the mid to late 90's, I'd say it's only really became about money over the last 10yrs when "investment" groups became owners.

Our owners are a prime example, much more interested in the P&L sheet as opposed to battling to become England's best again.

Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.

And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think that's Arsenal done and the CL qualification run finished now. Can't see them making 4th. Wenger looks to have lost all heart for the battle, the players look lost and I can see a lot of people going on and off the pitch in the summer

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Are they really more interested in the balance sheet ?

Spent more money as owners than any other owner both in player purchases , wages and stadium improvements - they aren't taking any profit out of the club and anymore earned stays in the club to buy players with - they aren't going to run the club at a loss or pile millions of their own money into the club to buy players in the same way that happened with City and Chelsea. If they were only interested in selling for a profit why haven't they sold us when we are now worth a great deal more than when they first bought us ? They could have easily walked away by now with a nice tidy profit but they haven't.

Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff.

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next, mark my words.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff.

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next, mark my words.

Blame the manager - he had the money to spend but didn't

Our players leaving isn't because of our owners it's because of a lack of success on the pitch

We had to reduce costs because the club was running at an unsustainable loss year on year out before they arrived

I'll ask again if it's all about money - why haven't they sold the club for the big gain they can get ? They take no money from the club as you will see from the accounts which shows the club still running at a loss - so if it's about money they aren't doing a great job of getting money from the club are they ? Lots of money has been spent , look at the amount of money we have spent in the transfer market since they arrived - yes maybe their choices of managers or people involved in transfers can certainly be questioned as we have wasted a lot of money where they are concerned

It will always come down to the same question - if they only care about their investment why haven't they sold up for the big profit they could get for us right now

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Blame the manager - he had the money to spend but didn't

Are you falling for the or machine?

Our players leaving isn't because of our owners it's because of a lack of success on the pitch

Whose fault is that when our best players are being sold and then replaced with Aspas and Alberto? Have you forgotten what JWH said when we sold Torres and replaced him with Carroll? Because I haven't!!

We had to reduce costs because the club was running at an unsustainable loss year on year out before they arrived

Fair point but that was down to how the previous shysters were trying to run the club.

I'll ask again if it's all about money - why haven't they sold the club for the big gain they can get ?

I'm not privy to the reasons but I'm assuming they're waiting for the loan repayment from LFC to be repaid.

They take no money from the club as you will see from the accounts which shows the club still running at a loss - so if it's about money they aren't doing a great job of getting money from the club are they ?

I've never once accused them of taking any money from the club though I'm pretty sure there expenses are well covered.

Lots of money has been spent

very badly I agree but it's with constraints, Ian ayre's week long jaunt to tie the konopylanka deal and all he came back with was a bag of duty free after disagreeing over £2m. Then there's the Delle Ali fiasco because they wouldn't pay him £5k pw.

, look at the amount of money we have spent in the transfer market since they arrived

most of it has been generated by sales, they've hardly fronted money to buy players

- yes maybe their choices of managers or people involved in transfers can certainly be questioned as we have wasted a lot of money where they are concerned

It will always come down to the same question - if they only care about their investment why haven't they sold up for the big profit they could get for us right now

Greed no doubt, they want £1bn.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?

Fair point. What about other teams. If you're a Spurs fan, there is clear forward momentum, and City and Chelsea will usually contend for top four and should get out of CL group stages and both have won trophies in recent years. How long as a Liverpool fan do you give it without winning another trophy, and Arsenal are a club on the cusp of seeing the nucleus of the side and management go. Everton are moving forward too but will they then be hampered by the lack of capacity and perhaps an ability to get the players in to really sustain a top four challenge

 

[sawtooth]

I think the difference between the two is clear

How much an owner is worth is irrelevant it's how they spend the money in the club

Arsenal's money that is spent is money generated by the club itself - from tickets , prize money , sponsership etc

Chelsea owner 13 years ago boaught the club and then piled lots of his own money into the club using his own personal fortune to buy players etc - the club itself is in a lot of debt to the owner. They still run a little bit of a loss every year but now they are using money earned to spend. Chelsea owner personally financed Chelsea rise from Cup winning team to a league winning team. They aren't the only one and UEFA have tried rules to stop it happening but I have no idea what's happening with the FFP now

The issue that Sean misses a number of times is - the money that Arsenal have earned is there to spend - they have the funds to buy expensive players and give players the wages they need - but it appears that Wenger doesn't want to do that , why ? No idea - maybe he feels like Sean and it's not the right way to do it ?

The other point that Sean also misses is - Leicester , they showed that he is get enough good players and get the tactics right and the team motivated then you can defy the odds. The money excuse doesn't wash anymore.

Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending £200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows £200M on 4 players £50M each, £200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a £1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd.

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead.

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Greed no doubt, they want £1bn.

Hell of a lot of guess work there

And also a lot of stuff out of the owners control

Yes they haven't spent loads of their own money buying players - they never were going to

The biggest things they have been guilty of is - puttingAyre in charge of football matters and money , his history at Huddersfield showed he shouldn't have been near transfers , the transfer committee and employing Rodgers - a better manager with the money he was given would have given us better results

So ultimately the biggest finger to point at them isn't a finance issue its a recruitment issue

 

[Deleted member 1740]

And since they became owners in 2010 you have won 1 trophy, you give Sawtooth enough stick about their owners, how long are you giving your's if you don't win anything?

In fairness, they've got rid when they've had to, though Rodgers should've been out of the door in the summer.

This manager needs backing properly in the summer with no influences from wanna be football men. No excuses.

 

[Hobbit]

Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending £200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows £200M on 4 players £50M each, £200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a £1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd.

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead.

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.

You miss two points in your financials. As you bring players in you sell players out, offsetting expenditure at that same as you improve the value of the club. And buying success, which you're vehemently opposed to, brings in cash.

Clumsily you could call it speculating to accumulate.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Phil, we've had this numerous times and I'm still of the same opinion. They're an investment group who are only concerned about their investment. We sold more than we spent this year, the wage structure is significantly lower although recent accounts show a wage increase due to a turnover of staff and we've employed more non playing staff.

When's the Rd end getting done?? Yes that's right it's not because they can't rip the fans to pay for it. It's all about money for them, you don't need to win anymore to make money.

Sold our best players year on year, Coutinho's next, mark my words.

Unless Coutinho really ups his game I can't see anyone coming in for him.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In fairness, they've got rid when they've had to, though Rodgers should've been out of the door in the summer.

This manager needs backing properly in the summer with no influences from wanna be football men. No excuses.

Then surely owners of any Club need to be honest with the fans, are they employing Klopp/Koeman with a 3-5yr plan were they are willing to back them so at the end of the plan they want to see success and is that success to be determined by Trophies or Spreadsheets.

I understand Rodgers had to go, but some of the criticism seems unfair, he got you's to within a few games of winning the PL, why was Suarez sold? It's ok saying he didn't go to a PL rival, but at the time was irreplaceable.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending £200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows £200M on 4 players £50M each, £200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a £1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd.

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead.

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.

How many extra contracts did Arsenal keep giving players like Rosicky , Diaby even players like Wilshire , Walcott , Gibbs - players who spent 75% of their career injured ? How much are player like Mertesacker etc on - even Coqeulin etc - sub standard players on mega contracts - players that don't win teams league titles.

Why should other players want more of Arsenal spend big of some real top quality players ? If they want the big wages the play for them.

Arsenal are spending money - just poorly , spent more on Chaka than Chelsea spent on Kante. How much exactly is Wilshire on whilst he sits on Bournemouths bench ? How much was Perez for him to spend most of the time on the bench ?

Arsenal have had money to spend without risking going out of business but ultimately the money has been spent poorly by the manager.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How many extra contracts did Arsenal keep giving players like Rosicky , Diaby even players like Wilshire , Walcott , Gibbs - players who spent 75% of their career injured ? How much are player like Mertesacker etc on - even Coqeulin etc - sub standard players on mega contracts - players that don't win teams league titles.

Why should other players want more of Arsenal spend big of some real top quality players ? If they want the big wages the play for them.

Arsenal are spending money - just poorly , spent more on Chaka than Chelsea spent on Kante. How much exactly is Wilshire on whilst he sits on Bournemouths bench ? How much was Perez for him to spend most of the time on the bench ?

Arsenal have had money to spend without risking going out of business but ultimately the money has been spent poorly by the manager.

Not sure with some of Liverpool's signings under Hodgson and Rodgers you've got much to shout about

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Arsenal are spending their money and will continue to spend but they must do this responsibly and within their means.

What good is spending £200M if you cannot earn enough to sustain the new increased level of wages? Its a bit like me buying a fleet of rolls royce cars, even if I did have the money to do that the maintenance and running costs would kill me.

So Wenger blows £200M on 4 players £50M each, £200K a week each for 4-5 years. Other existing players would some of that as well. The increased opex would be astronomical with CL income let alone if Arsenal don't qualify often in the next 5 years. It would be reckless and tantamount to gambling.

No thanks.

And as for Leicester do you want a £1000 bet that Leicester won't win the premiership again in the next 20 years? Anyone?

You can't include Leicester as it was a perfect storms and the stars aligned last season. Won't happen again in my lifetime that's for sure.

No, back to normal now and the clubs with the most wealth will succeed. Chelsea, City and Utd.

Arsenal are not really falling behind, those 3 are just out spending the rest and moving ahead.

I can comfortably predict that Spurs, Liverpool,. Everton and others will just be making up the numbers in the next 10 years as they have done in the past 10. They may threaten an upset on occasions but that's about it.

Teams with the best players usually win and the best players cost a lot of money.

I would agree with a lot of your points if you had been a mid table team striving to join the big boys, but your not, you've been 2-3 players away at times so you'd be building over succesive seasons.

Would you be happy if from next season Arsenal won nothing but finished top 4 for the following 5 Seasons.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Hell of a lot of guess work there

And also a lot of stuff out of the owners control

Yes they haven't spent loads of their own money buying players - they never were going to

The biggest things they have been guilty of is - puttingAyre in charge of football matters and money , his history at Huddersfield showed he shouldn't have been near transfers , the transfer committee and employing Rodgers - a better manager with the money he was given would have given us better results

So ultimately the biggest finger to point at them isn't a finance issue its a recruitment issue

Phil you've asked me why haven't they sold Upto now now, and as I'm not privy to their plans I've had to guess!! What else am I supposed to do?

If and when they do sell I hope they leave a chunk of the profits in the LFC accounts seeing as they won't have used their own money - "they were never going to spend their own money was they"

If we're not making enough money to compete, is it really wrong to expect them to front some money to make us compete?

Of course it's a finance issue, good recruitment comes directly from proper financial backing as history has proved!!

They bought us for a song, and don't forget, a new stadium was "non negotiable", we've ended up with a little makeover instead and people like you cream themselves over how great the owners are.

I'm going to leave it here now Phil, otherwise we'll end up going round in circles.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Not sure with some of Liverpool's signings under Hodgson and Rodgers you've got much to shout about

Except we're not comparing Arsenal to Liverpool, delete Liverpool, insert Loads of other clubs