And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Lord Tyrion]

Mourinho is definitely following his usual system; he's getting the excuses for failure in early.

Now, I don't think he's right with them all but he certainly isn't wrong with them all, either. But the way he parades them is baffling. Everyone knows that City can be got at defensively - but Pep doesn't admit it and blame others. Everyone knows the same about Liverpool and especially that their goalkeepers have been mince - but Klopp doesn't admit it and blame others. Even Arsenal who have been criminally rundown by Arsene Wenger for years - Arsene didn't admit that and blame others.

His motivation techniques are baffling and while it's true that none of us know what he says in private, it can't be good for these players to be criticised so openly, and often in contradiction with their actual performances.

I think this is a good and honest write up from a fan. He is certainly a strange bloke.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They've not really been that successful under Mourinho though and time is running out as Jose's teams normally get their success early on.

• Won the league in his first year at Porto & Champions League in his 2nd - left after that
• Won the league in his first and seasons at Chelsea before things started to turn sour in the 3rd
• Won Serie A in his first and 2nd seasons at Inter and won the Champions League in his 2nd - left after 2 years
• At Real had early success in his 2nd season winning La Liga before things turned sour in his 3rd season and he left
• Back at Chelsea where he won the league in his 2nd season and things went downhill after that again in the 3rd season

We're now going into his 3rd season at United and the only major trophy he's won is a Europa League. Mourinho historically either leaves before the 3rd season starts or doesn't make it through the 3rd season as Manager. The main difference at United is it's turning sour before he's really even won anything.

3 Trophies in 2 seasons, plus out of top 4 to Runners-Up, everyone goes on about Football is now a business, he’s got them closest to being back as Champions since Fergie left, are you sure any other manager would of done better?
As previously stated, you know what you get with Jose, plenty of Utd fans on here didn’t want him, whatever his character is, he’s been succesful at Utd.
Surely if he’s that bad other fans would be over the moon with the issues he’s apparently causing at Utd.
The comment about Martial highlighted and the comments about Jones and Rashford in the same sentence ignored.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Success comes in different levels and there's a long term to be considered as well.

What if the success continues on the upward trail?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Man Utd fans are used to challenging for the league every year and also the CL as well as doing it with a bit of attacking style , I doubt many Utd fans would see the last few years as successful especially not with the level of money paid out - is there really much difference between what Van Gaal did to now ? At least Van Gaal gave the talented youngsters a real good chance

If an UTD manager is not challenging each year then the fans will expect change - it’s a mentality that has grown from the Taggert years - FA Cups are a good day out , the Europa League was a route back into the CL , fans will celebrate on the day but will expect more and other the years Maureen hasn’t provided more and certainly not to the level he has over the years - it’s 5 years now since the last title - I expect it will be 6 after this season as with Liverpool and Arsenal that number creeps up quickly

 

[Kellfire]

What if the success continues on the upward trail?

"continues"?

It's on the downward slide at the moment. We've regressed in terms of real success in the past year.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

"continues"?

It's on the downward slide at the moment. We've regressed in terms of real success in the past year.

How, he’s got you higher in the PL and more trophies since Fergie retired.
On what planet is that downward

 

[Kellfire]

How, he’s got you higher in the PL and more trophies since Fergie retired.
On what planet is that downward

Two years ago we won the Europa League. Last year we never offered a meaningful challenge in the league or Europe. He's stifled his best players and he has the team set up to play turgid football. To me, that overall picture is most certainly downward.

One off observations don't prove anything but it's not a glowing review that DDG has been our player of the year for so long. Since I've followed Man Utd I've seen that be players like Cantona, RVN, Rooney and Ronaldo. It's just awful.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I totally accept people dislike Jose as a person or the style of Football he plays, but nobody can deny he gets success.
Is success the be all and end all? No, not to all fans, just >90% imo,
I was chastised, along with other Everton fans, for complaining about Allardyce when he’d got us to 8th, despite the rubbish football and him publicly blaming different players week after week.
Now after the glory years and domination of Utd for season after season and coming up against the best team (City) we’d ever seen in the PL, Jose is still wrong, he has to repair the damage done by Moyes and Van Gaal after Fergie left.
He isn’t a miracle worker, he’s got them back in the CL and 2nd spot, from were they were when he took over, that aint bad in 2 seasons.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Two years ago we won the Europa League. Last year we never offered a meaningful challenge in the league or Europe. He's stifled his best players and he has the team set up to play turgid football. To me, that overall picture is most certainly downward.

One off observations don't prove anything but it's not a glowing review that DDG has been our player of the year for so long. Since I've followed Man Utd I've seen that be players like Cantona, RVN, Rooney and Ronaldo. It's just awful.

Style of Football I accept, but maybe that’s how he’s had to set up with the players at his disposal and if so, his results are even more impressive.

 

[Kellfire]

Style of Football I accept, but maybe that’s how he’s had to set up with the players at his disposal and if so, his results are even more impressive.

And this is why it's subjective but if he can't get a tune out of players like Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Pogba... well, then he's not the manager I want at my football club.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It is similar to Allardyce though. As Kellfire says, the football is awful, he is stifling the attacking players that they have. In terms of league position it is progress but for entertainment it is dreadful. He is hardly working on a shoestring either. The Utd fans I know for real, not counting posters on here that I have never met, to a man can't wait for Mourinho to leave. They dislike his football, they dislike his man management style, they dislike his manner and how it reflects on the club. They didn't want him from the start and they feel they have been proved right. Paul, you mentioned earlier that you know what you are getting with Jose and you are dead right. They didn't want it though.

It is an interesting point, how far is a club willing to sell its soul for success. Jose is the ultimate test of that question.

I was the same with Allardyce last year. I didn't want him from the start, his football was awful and no matter how high up the league he got us I didn't want him for another year. Some things are worth more than a league place.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And this is why it's subjective but if he can't get a tune out of players like Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Pogba... well, then he's not the manager I want at my football club.

So going back to your previous post, you’re determining success by style of football and not trophies.
That’s the business side now, nobody recruits Jose because of his playing style, your issue is more with the owners than him imo.

 

[Kellfire]

So going back to your previous post, you’re determining success by style of football and not trophies.
That’s the business side now, nobody recruits Jose because of his playing style, your issue is more with the owners than him imo.

I believe we could challenge and be more successful if Jose could utilise those players. We've certainly got the firepower to out gun Liverpool.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It is similar to Allardyce though. As Kellfire says, the football is awful, he is stifling the attacking players that they have. In terms of league position it is progress but for entertainment it is dreadful. He is hardly working on a shoestring either. The Utd fans I know for real, not counting posters on here that I have never met, to a man can't wait for Mourinho to leave. They dislike his football, they dislike his man management style, they dislike his manner and how it reflects on the club. They didn't want him from the start and they feel they have been proved right. Paul, you mentioned earlier that you know what you are getting with Jose and you are dead right. They didn't want it though.

It is an interesting point, how far is a club willing to sell its soul for success. Jose is the ultimate test of that question.

I was the same with Allardyce last year. I didn't want him from the start, his football was awful and no matter how high up the league he got us I didn't want him for another year. Some things are worth more than a league place.

I’m in no way advocating selling your soul for success, but I do think size and level of Club comes into it.
I’d be happy with 9th-14th this season if we see better football and this season being a stepping stone to challenging for top 8 the following season and further beyond that.
Can Utd at their level be happy to drop out of the top 4 while looking for the right manager playing the right football? No, no they can’t.
The top 6 need to stay as the top 6 and sometimes by any means neccessary.
Whether we like it or not, only 3 teams progressed position wise at the top last season from the season before, City, Utd and Burnley.
How long will other fans stay patient if trophies don’t start appearing?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I believe we could challenge and be more successful if Jose could utilise those players. We've certainly got the firepower to out gun Liverpool.

That’s subjective though isn’t it, imo, nobody in the PL currently could out gun the Liv forward line.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And this is why it's subjective but if he can't get a tune out of players like Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Pogba... well, then he's not the manager I want at my football club.

The problem is the player you haven’t mentioned - Lukaku , playing him half dictates the style of play ,Mourinho bought him expect the same impact as Drogba but he hasn’t got the same level of control or ability to bring others into the game on a consistent basis - he scores goals but not enough important goals. A front three of Martial - Sanchez and Rashford would give the City and Liverpool front three a run for their money but after playing so much for him he has to play him - I always wonder if he bought him to stop Chelsea getting him because he was perfect for Conte style of play

 

[Kellfire]

That’s subjective though isn’t it, imo, nobody in the PL currently could out gun the Liv forward line.

I disagree - man for man, I'd take whatever three is considering to be playing the best at any time out of Lukaku, Sanchez, Mata, Martial and Rashford over Salah, Mane and Firminho. Klopp has lesser players (Salah excepted) playing as a fantastic unit through tactical nous and motivation. Klopp would love to have the front players United have.

The problem is the player you haven’t mentioned - Lukaku , playing him half dictates the style of play ,Mourinho bought him expect the same impact as Drogba but he hasn’t got the same level of control or ability to bring others into the game on a consistent basis - he scores goals but not enough important goals. A front three of Martial - Sanchez and Rashford would give the City and Liverpool front three a run for their money but after playing so much for him he has to play him - I always wonder if he bought him to stop Chelsea getting him because he was perfect for Conte style of play

You know where I stand on Lukaku - we definitely agree. I really do think there is a world class player in Lukaku but I don't expect to see it under Mourinho's tactics.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I disagree - man for man, I'd take whatever three is considering to be playing the best at any time out of Lukaku, Sanchez, Mata, Martial and Rashford over Salah, Mane and Firminho. Klopp has lesser players (Salah excepted) playing as a fantastic unit through tactical nous and motivation. Klopp would love to have the front players United have.

Sorry but disagree the only player I would take as back up is Martial - don’t see any Utd player taking the spot of our current front three and definitely not with the style the manager plays - it’s all about playing as units as opposed to individual

 

[Kellfire]

Sorry but disagree the only player I would take as back up is Martial - don’t see any Utd player taking the spot of our current front three and definitely not with the style the manager plays - it’s all about playing as units as opposed to individual

Sanchez, Mata and Rashford are incredibly hard working and (ignoring Salah as he's superb) I think Sanchez is the real stand out in terms of ability. He walks into the Liverpool front line instead of Mane, for sure. Firminho is the odd one because he's not a brilliant goalscorer, but something all of his own. But I definitely think Klopp would replace him if he had a better player available.

 

[Orikoru]

We desperately need the actual football to kick off now. This endless daily chatter about Mourinho is absolutely tiresome.