And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Deleted member 16999]

Well i opened a can of worms this morning. My point was that Jose was being irresponsible and unfair on the staff at Utd. Utd will have put a huge amount of effort and time into that tour, build up and during. In one interview he undoes that work, dismisses the relationships built up in the planning. I feel for the staff he has hung out to dry.

Clearly these tours have nothing to do with pre season. They are all about marketing, spreading the word etc around the globe. However, they bring in the money that pays the big wages, allows the big transfer fees. Managers have to suck them up because they benefit from the cash generated. They can't have it both ways. Jose is just an employee after all, he has some corporate responsibility, same as every employee.

So if you take the shilling you tow the party line?
You know what you get with him and it’s honesty, he said nothing derogatory to anyone.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Jose has improved Utd year on year since he took over and won trophies, he repeats comments he’s made before, suddenly LP thinks a bad start and he’ll be gone by Christmas if not before, why would any less succesful managers be anymore secure in that scenario?n

Do you really need that explaining??

As a blue I trust my opinion of them more than yours, just one question, is Steklenburg our No1?

he was before Pickford came in last season :thup: He's not an inexperienced keeper is he?

The issue that doesn’t exist with your bet is that I/we have nothing else to go on apart from that initial inaccurate post.

Not giving any snidey digs, happy to answer anyone on here, not hide and dodge questions like LP and others do when it gets a bit rough.

Ok Paul, i'll keep that in mind.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well i opened a can of worms this morning. My point was that Jose was being irresponsible and unfair on the staff at Utd. Utd will have put a huge amount of effort and time into that tour, build up and during. In one interview he undoes that work, dismisses the relationships built up in the planning. I feel for the staff he has hung out to dry.

Clearly these tours have nothing to do with pre season. They are all about marketing, spreading the word etc around the globe. However, they bring in the money that pays the big wages, allows the big transfer fees. Managers have to suck them up because they benefit from the cash generated. They can't have it both ways. Jose is just an employee after all, he has some corporate responsibility, same as every employee.

You are spot on - but appears it upset people when you point that out , only manager who is moaning about it Maureen but I suspect it’s just the start of him finding a way out of the club - getting the sack and the big pay off , he has history of it

Reckon Enrique will be manager by the end of the season

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I really do need that explaining as it seems all the noises are coming from other clubs fans not Man Utd’s.

Stekenleburg isn’t our No 1 and has only played 16 games in 2 seasons.

No problem :thup:

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So if you take the shilling you tow the party line?
You know what you get with him and it’s honesty, he said nothing derogatory to anyone.

In public, yes you do. Fight against it behind the scenes but once the decision is made you have to go along with it. Same as in any work structure. If you start effectively openly criticising your bosses, their decisions and strategy then it is only going to end one way.

 

[Papas1982]

In public, yes you do. Fight against it behind the scenes but once the decision is made you have to go along with it. Same as in any work structure. If you start effectively openly criticising your bosses, their decisions and strategy then it is only going to end one way.

Thats a nice idea, but realistically a clubs success is down to how they perform on the pitch, not in the boardroom or stock market.

All managers will look after their best interests first, many have confrontations with the board.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thats a nice idea, but realistically a clubs success is down to how they perform on the pitch, not in the boardroom or stock market.

All managers will look after their best interests first, many have confrontations with the board.

And now do they pay to get the players to get the success on the pitch ? From the funds generated by the club which come from the boardroom and stock market. Man Utd etc need the global revenue to pay for the wages and fees for the multi million pound players they have for

A club’s success these days is down to how financially secure they are - the winners are the guys with the big money. City’s success on the pitch came from the money in boardroom , same with Chelsea and same with Utd

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In public, yes you do. Fight against it behind the scenes but once the decision is made you have to go along with it. Same as in any work structure. If you start effectively openly criticising your bosses, their decisions and strategy then it is only going to end one way.

So Man Utd must of thought they’d signed a different Jose from the one at Chelsea, Madrid and Inter
If he’s sacked for stepping out of line or saying the wrong things fine, but it’ll be more than likely he’ll be judged on results, right now he’s strengthened the squad that finished 2nd last season and won a trophy, now he wants them stronger, what am I missing?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And now do they pay to get the players to get the success on the pitch ? From the funds generated by the club which come from the boardroom and stock market. Man Utd etc need the global revenue to pay for the wages and fees for the multi million pound players they have for

A club’s success these days is down to how financially well run they are - the winners are the guys with the big money. City’s success on the pitch came from the money in boardroom , same with Chelsea and same with Utd

Rubbish, City and Chelsea did neither of that, the new owners bought the success with no initial limits on spending, once they had the success they are generating money via that route.
Initially nobody knew how well or badly they would end up being run.
Those 2 have been accussed of buying the league and ruining the premiership for years by bitter rivals.

 

[Papas1982]

And now do they pay to get the players to get the success on the pitch ? From the funds generated by the club which come from the boardroom and stock market. Man Utd etc need the global revenue to pay for the wages and fees for the multi million pound players they have for

A club’s success these days is down to how financially well run they are - the winners are the guys with the big money. City’s success on the pitch came from the money in boardroom , same with Chelsea and same with Utd

Obviously clubs need money, but all premier league clubs generate vast amounts. How did UTD or Liverpool get to a point where they are worlddie brands? It was through success. as time has gone by and fees have increased the role a board plays has become important in making the most of that success. But i don't think many will really agree that Dein or the Glaziers were more important than Fergie or Wenger. I accept they may be from a different era but if you then look at say spurs or Liverpool it could be argued that they've been better run recently, but that board was still in charge when Rogers and Villas Boas were in charge. Same for Mourinho instead of Van Gaal.

I'll accept that the board helped City and Chelsea, but they are now both attempting to run as football clubs after a massive cash injection, that wasn't down to the board running them fantastically. It was done courtesy of outside financial investment.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So Man Utd must of thought they’d signed a different Jose from the one at Chelsea, Madrid and Inter
If he’s sacked for stepping out of line or saying the wrong things fine, but it’ll be more than likely he’ll be judged on results, right now he’s strengthened the squad that finished 2nd last season and won a trophy, now he wants them stronger, what am I missing?

I get your point. Clubs take Jose and accept his behaviour as long as he brings trophies. His history suggests that if those trophies dry up then the owners tend to have enough and move him out. I'm not suggesting Utd will do that this year, although it does depend on how it goes, but his behaviour was poor still. I guess I'm bored of his antics now. He has done it at club after club but you are correct, Utd knew what they were getting.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Obviously clubs need money, but all premier league clubs generate vast amounts. How did UTD or Liverpool get to a point where they are worlddie brands? It was through success. as time has gone by and fees have increased the role a board plays has become important in making the most of that success. But i don't think many will really agree that Dein or the Glaziers were more important than Fergie or Wenger. I accept they may be from a different era but if you then look at say spurs or Liverpool it could be argued that they've been better run recently, but that board was still in charge when Rogers and Villas Boas were in charge. Same for Mourinho instead of Van Gaal.

I'll accept that the board helped City and Chelsea, but they are now both attempting to run as football clubs after a massive cash injection, that wasn't down to the board running them fantastically. It was done courtesy of outside financial investment.

Liverpool gained their success before the money arrived - but even then they had a good backer. UTD leapt on the Prem Money and used it to built the stadium up which gave them even more money and they built from there -

Football is now money driven - the more money you have the better chance you have of success on the field - the money allows a club to buy the better players and pay the better wages

Both City and Chelsea got success through money from the boardroom - both their owners are on the board, the owners gave the money the board got the players

PSG could suddenly buy the best not because of the success on the pitch but again Money

He last decade or so the winners of the big comps bar one season all come from a team with massive financial backing in one way or another . Liverpool and Spurs have been well run but both have had to sell their better players to keep purchasing more players where as the likes of City , Chelsea and UTD don’t “have “ to sell their better players - they can just dip into deep pockets . City will once again no doubt win the league this year - they also have the most expensive team/squad with the most expensive manager looking after them - it’s not really rocket science. A club’s success these days is mainly down to how much money the club has and can afford to spend on players

 

[Papas1982]

Liverpool gained their success before the money arrived - but even then they had a good backer. UTD leapt on the Prem Money and used it to built the stadium up which gave them even more money and they built from there -

Football is now money driven - the more money you have the better chance you have of success on the field - the money allows a club to buy the better players and pay the better wages

Both City and Chelsea got success through money from the boardroom - both their owners are on the board, the owners gave the money the board got the players

PSG could suddenly buy the best not because of the success on the pitch but again Money

He last decade or so the winners of the big comps bar one season all come from a team with massive financial backing in one way or another . Liverpool and Spurs have been well run but both have had to sell their better players to keep purchasing more players where as the likes of City , Chelsea and UTD don’t “have “ to sell their better players - they can just dip into deep pockets . City will once again no doubt win the league this year - they also have the most expensive team/squad with the most expensive manager looking after them - it’s not really rocket science. A club’s success these days is mainly down to how much money the club has and can afford to spend on players

I fully agree that money is massively important. But PSG, City and Chelsea didn't get there money due to the importance of the board, which is the original point we were discussing.

Klopp and your current owners, or fat sam/hodgson Roman in charge. Who are you backing for success?

 

[Kellfire]

Mourinho is definitely following his usual system; he's getting the excuses for failure in early.

Now, I don't think he's right with them all but he certainly isn't wrong with them all, either. But the way he parades them is baffling. Everyone knows that City can be got at defensively - but Pep doesn't admit it and blame others. Everyone knows the same about Liverpool and especially that their goalkeepers have been mince - but Klopp doesn't admit it and blame others. Even Arsenal who have been criminally rundown by Arsene Wenger for years - Arsene didn't admit that and blame others.

His motivation techniques are baffling and while it's true that none of us know what he says in private, it can't be good for these players to be criticised so openly, and often in contradiction with their actual performances.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Mourinho is definitely following his usual system; he's getting the excuses for failure in early.

Now, I don't think he's right with them all but he certainly isn't wrong with them all, either. But the way he parades them is baffling. Everyone knows that City can be got at defensively - but Pep doesn't admit it and blame others. Everyone knows the same about Liverpool and especially that their goalkeepers have been mince - but Klopp doesn't admit it and blame others. Even Arsenal who have been criminally rundown by Arsene Wenger for years - Arsene didn't admit that and blame others.

His motivation techniques are baffling and while it's true that none of us know what he says in private, it can't be good for these players to be criticised so openly, and often in contradiction with their actual performances.

The difference between Maureen and Klopp or Pep or indeed most managers is in public they support the player - yep both City a d Liverpool have had issues with players but they don’t publicly slate them like Mourinho does - last year it was Shaw and Pogba and currently it’s Martial and it’s certainly tactics that doesn’t seem tohave a positive effect - Martial is a superb player but no doubt right now he wants out

 

[Kellfire]

The difference between Maureen and Klopp or Pep or indeed most managers is in public they support the player - yep both City a d Liverpool have had issues with players but they don’t publicly slate them like Mourinho does - last year it was Shaw and Pogba and currently it’s Martial and it’s certainly tactics that doesn’t seem tohave a positive effect - Martial is a superb player but no doubt right now he wants out

I just don't get the logic in offering Mourinho a new contract when we did. It totally ties our hands.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I just don't get the logic in offering Mourinho a new contract when we did. It totally ties our hands.

Success

 

[Tashyboy]

Success

Thing is though, he has had some success, but I don't think that is the issue with Utd fans and the neurtrals who watch.

 

[Kellfire]

Success

Success comes in different levels and there's a long term to be considered as well.

 

[Dan2501]

Success

They've not really been that successful under Mourinho though and time is running out as Jose's teams normally get their success early on.

• Won the league in his first year at Porto & Champions League in his 2nd - left after that
• Won the league in his first and seasons at Chelsea before things started to turn sour in the 3rd
• Won Serie A in his first and 2nd seasons at Inter and won the Champions League in his 2nd - left after 2 years
• At Real had early success in his 2nd season winning La Liga before things turned sour in his 3rd season and he left
• Back at Chelsea where he won the league in his 2nd season and things went downhill after that again in the 3rd season

We're now going into his 3rd season at United and the only major trophy he's won is a Europa League. Mourinho historically either leaves before the 3rd season starts or doesn't make it through the 3rd season as Manager. The main difference at United is it's turning sour before he's really even won anything.