And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Bunkermagnet]

Thought as usual we were thinking we were better than we really are.
I don’t understand why the Dutch thought their CL final playing members were fit enough and Southgate didn’t think ours weren’t.
As useal It seems to me we have another England manager who picks his team depending on who his favourites are regardless of form, fitness or ability.
TBH couple the England performances, team selection and behaviour of some fans I can quite happily take it or leave it.

 

[Tashyboy]

How are the FA going to convince Guardiola to take the job when Southgates time is up?

Rammel ^^^😁

Joking aside, I was watching the game last night from about 10 mins before Holland scored there first. England looked poor. The extra time was woeful. Since Pep has been at City. City try and play out from the back. The first year was proper squeaky bum time. At times it was awful. It takes time but now it is second nature. It seems a lot of prem teams now want to play from the back. Watching England try and do it last night was embarrassing. Like watching City do it in there first game under Pep. It looked like a championship team doing it. The biggest culprit being Stones. Yet Englands disallowed goal came from playing out from the back. The problem is that Prem teams do it day after day. England for a few days. It's gonna be time before that looks natural

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Barkley should have done a bit better IMO, he was very poor all evening, constantly looking for cheap fouls and dwelling on the ball too much. I sort of agree with your creativity comment however we never got the ball to those who can make a difference, we couldn't get over our half way line for most of the game due to a crap midfield.

That’s Barkley’s game everytime, he almost plays in slowmotion, has a decent game every 4-5 matches to fool you in to thinking he’ll do it every game.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Rammel ^^^😁

Joking aside, I was watching the game last night from about 10 mins before Holland scored there first. England looked poor. The extra time was woeful. Since Pep has been at City. City try and play out from the back. The first year was proper squeaky bum time. At times it was awful. It takes time but now it is second nature. It seems a lot of prem teams now want to play from the back. Watching England try and do it last night was embarrassing. Like watching City do it in there first game under Pep. It looked like a championship team doing it. The biggest culprit being Stones. Yet Englands disallowed goal came from playing out from the back. The problem is that Prem teams do it day after day. England for a few days. It's gonna be time before that looks natural

Tashy - all 4 of England's back line last night, 5 if you include Pickford, are Premiership players, used to playing out from the back every day in training and matches! 2 of them play for the best team in England! Saying they only do it for a few days with England is nonsense IMO. In fact it should make Southgates job easier!

The 2 Dutch goals were down to sloppiness, not being focussed, and a lack of composure in those moments - that's it; nothing more than that. At International level you get punished for those mistakes; you don't every time in the Premiership given the quality of the opposition.

 

[Piece]

Rammel ^^^😁

Joking aside, I was watching the game last night from about 10 mins before Holland scored there first. England looked poor. The extra time was woeful. Since Pep has been at City. City try and play out from the back. The first year was proper squeaky bum time. At times it was awful. It takes time but now it is second nature. It seems a lot of prem teams now want to play from the back. Watching England try and do it last night was embarrassing. Like watching City do it in there first game under Pep. It looked like a championship team doing it. The biggest culprit being Stones. Yet Englands disallowed goal came from playing out from the back. The problem is that Prem teams do it day after day. England for a few days. It's gonna be time before that looks natural

The difference is that City have world class players in midfield that can do this, whereas England have very good players that currently can't very well. Delph, Rice, Barkley, Henderson aren't the type of players to control the game like Silva, Silva and Gundogan do. I doubt they will ever be. Maybe we need people like Winks, Foden type players that look like they have the ability to take a pass under pressure and be mobile with it. Southgate is doing the right thing, just that we now need to get the right personnel in to do it. And defend better

 

[Deleted member 1418]

There are a few key things to playing out from the back:

1) You need a goalkeeper comfortable with the ball at his feet, really acting as a 5th defender.

2) You need defenders who are - again - comfortable on the ball, but also who can pass it quickly and accurately. They also need to be able to bring the ball out from the back and into the more '0defensive midfield' areas.

3) Most importantly - IMO - you need to get your midfield balance right, with your most central midfielders always looking to receive the ball off defenders and then moving it on quickly. So they need to a) always be in space; and b) be able to play on the half turn so that they're in a position to make the next pass a forward/positive one and have the most options available to them.

Re. 3, all the very good international and club teams have these type of players. From last night's game look at De Jong - he had a great game in that respect. The English 3, and I include Henderson as well when he came on, IMO were taking far longer in possession than their Dutch counterparts.

But I see far more positives with England under Southgate than negatives with the way he's trying to play. Let's face it at the World Cup we massively over-achieved, and benefitted from the luck of the draw and other results going our way.

And in this Nations Cup malarkey we've played some excellent football.

In all, England are heading in the right direction.

 

[Piece]

Anyone watching the women's World Cup that starts today? I don't like women's football myself, but willing to give it another bash and see what it's now like.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

[QUOTE="PieMan, post: 2005808, member: 1418"Re. 3, all the very good international and club teams have these type of players. From last night's game look at De Jong - he had a great game in that respect. The English 3, and I include Henderson as well when he came on, IMO were taking far longer in possession than their Dutch counterparts.
.[/QUOTE]
Whilst I don’t disagree with this point in general, I would also say you need attackers to be in a more forward position not crowding the midfielders like Rooney used to, and Kane and Stirling do.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

[QUOTE="PieMan, post: 2005808, member: 1418"Re. 3, all the very good international and club teams have these type of players. From last night's game look at De Jong - he had a great game in that respect. The English 3, and I include Henderson as well when he came on, IMO were taking far longer in possession than their Dutch counterparts.
.

Whilst I don’t disagree with this point in general, I would also say you need attackers to be in a more forward position not crowding the midfielders like Rooney used to, and Kane and Stirling do.[/QUOTE]

I get what you're saying, but you only need 1 forward who plays along the defensive line, preferably in the channels. I have no problem with the 2 wider players dropping a bit deeper to pick up the ball. Look at the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Hazard, Neymar at the very top level - they all do this.

Ideally you want Sterling, Sancho, Rashford to drop a bit deeper occasionally - into the areas between defence and midfield. A defender hates being pulled out of position, and an attacker dropping a bit deeper sometimes creates that 'do I follow or stay' uncertainty in their mind as it potentially leaves gaps behind them for the attacking team to exploit.

So for England you just want Kane to stay where he is, playing off the shoulder of a defender. For a spectator that looks like he's not doing much, but if it gives him more opportunities to score then that's all you want.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Blimey listening to the radio this morning you would think that they had lost a major semi final !?

Is this not just showing England to be the level they actually are at ?

Maybe it’s City players as they struggle in Europe 😉

In all seriousness some of the players just aren’t good enough at the top level against the better players

The GK - just isn’t good enough not comfortable with the ball at his feet and with crosses

The backline - going forward Walker has pace but poor delivery , gets away with it at City , Maguire and Stones - Maguire is no nonsense and a decent defender , Stones has just gone backwards- Chillwell looks a decent prospect.

The midfield- Delph 😂 shouldn’t be near an international team in midfield , Rice - is he a touch overhyped ? And Barkley seems to have gone backwards as well

Forward line - Sterling and Sancho are two quality players but Rashford through the middle just doesn’t work and he has also gone backwards

A lot of the issues maybe stem from the how the players have got in at the clubs or how they play with far better players

England imo would look and play as a better side with

Pope or Heaton in goal but think it’s still a weak area for them - not sure how Butland is getting on but he was the best of the lot

Backline - TAA and Gomez in for Walker and Stones - Gomez is far better on the ball , better defender and very quick across the ground. TAA whilst still developing his defending skills is far better on the ball

Midfield - Rice needs to be given a bit more time then have Henderson and Maddison ahead of him

Forward line - Sancho and Sterling then Kane - it’s a Line to frighten anyone

And they need to look at their tactics - it’s all good playing out from the back but it needs to be done with pace and not laboured and they have the players

 

[Beezerk]

Anyone watching the women's World Cup that starts today? I don't like women's football myself, but willing to give it another bash and see what it's now like.

No chance, it’s like watching football played in sludge 😂

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Anyone watching the women's World Cup that starts today? I don't like women's football myself, but willing to give it another bash and see what it's now like.

Probably very few, but if England get the 1/4’s or semi final the media hysteria will start and it’ll gain a few more viewers.

 

[Dan2501]

The GK - just isn’t good enough not comfortable with the ball at his feet and with crosses

Pope or Heaton in goal but think it’s still a weak area for them - not sure how Butland is getting on but he was the best of the lot

Pickford was excellent last night, bailed out the dreadful defence a number of times. Not sure what you were watching.

Walker needs to go for TAA though for sure. He was awful last night.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Pickford was excellent last night, bailed out the dreadful defence a number of times. Not sure what you were watching.

Walker needs to go for TAA though for sure. He was awful last night.

He doesn’t watch England and it’s Pickford, so you’ve no chance of any credit.
Shocked the headlines today didn’t link Stones and Barkley as Ex-Everton players to apportion blame.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

He doesn’t watch England and it’s Pickford, so you’ve no chance of any credit.
Shocked the headlines today didn’t link Stones and Barkley as Ex-Everton players to apportion blame.

And that parochial view that is in abundance with England is the main reason why I don’t get too wrapped up with England footy.
Give me a club game over England any day.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

And that parochial view that is in abundance with England is the main reason why I don’t get too wrapped up with England footy.
Give me a club game over England any day.

It’s true though, did you watch the match? Did Pickford play badly and warrants dropping from No1?
I’d drop him sunday, but that’s because it’s a nothing game and gives either of the other 2 some experience.

Southgate should play the best 11 regardless of Club. He has his ideas and nothing will change that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Pickford was excellent last night, bailed out the dreadful defence a number of times. Not sure what you were watching.

Walker needs to go for TAA though for sure. He was awful last night.

My view wasn’t based just on one game , Pickford is a very good shot stopper , just like David James was or Mignolet for example but these guys are below the standard needed at the top level - maybe right now it’s the best England can get but if say De Gea left Utd would they go looking for Pickford ? I don’t think so - and out of the mid level keepers within the England set up - Pope , Heaton , Pickford and Butland - Heaton or Pope imo are the better ones.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It’s true though, did you watch the match? Did Pickford play badly and warrants dropping from No1?
I’d drop him sunday, but that’s because it’s a nothing game and gives either of the other 2 some experience.

Southgate should play the best 11 regardless of Club. He has his ideas and nothing will change that.

Yes, I watched most of the game even though I struggle with the competition as it stands. I’ve never considered Pickford a quality international standard keeper compared to the likes of De Gea, Seamen, Shilton, Clemence, Allison, and plenty others Italian and German. I just see premiership players on huge wages thinking they’re better than they really are.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes, I watched most of the game even though I struggle with the competition as it stands. I’ve never considered Pickford a quality international standard keeper compared to the likes of De Gea, Seamen, Shilton, Clemence, Allison, and plenty others Italian and German. I just see premiership players on huge wages thinking they’re better than they really are.

Nice dodge, no one, including me, has ever said he compares to De Gea, Seamen, Shilton or Clemence, he just happens to be the current best Englishman of a bad bunch.
I’d add after 1 season I wouldn’t compare Alison with them 4 either, but I don’t want to come across as parochial.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Let's put it into perspective - the City, Liverpool and Spurs lads are all coming off very long seasons, especially if you include the World Cup last summer - a number of those who would arguably have started were on the bench last night or missing; in addition you had the likes of Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi out through injury.

Walker IMO will be the first to make way - TAA and even Trippier are in my mind better in that right back position. Rice is a fine footballer and the more games he gets - particularly at international level - the better he will get. Delph - a good player at club level but out of his depth at international level.

No doubt the Red Scouse Mafia will disagree(!) but I don't see Henderson as a starter for England. Whilst I thought he did well when he came on, and there's no doubting his leadership qualities, he takes too many touches on the ball for my preferred option in CM and dictating the play and tempo when playing out from the back. If the system needs to change though during the game then he is a good option from the bench if need be.

But all in all, when everyone is fit, Southgate actually has a pretty decent squad to choose from; and certainly exciting from an attacking perspective (including the young City lad Foden in that as I think he'll get more game time under Pep next season).