And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Deleted member 18588]

Is it also fair to change a judgement based on one match or indeed one moment where a defender was just a bit too static - VVD should have reacted better to the ball coming off the bar but he still had a decent game last night , when you can highlight single errors from a player and they are in a very small number then it shows the quality of the player. Every player has that game or moment where they just don’t hit their height of ability in a game - last night for me doesn’t stop him being the best in the world



We did play superb at Barce - we got them that rattled in the second half we forced them to sit deep in their own ground - this is a Barce team that normally dominate any team they played - the difference between the two was they were clinical with their chances we weren’t - which is what Klopp has also said

But I am not changing my opinion of him based solely on last night.

Personally I have never yet thought him as the best defender in the world.

I do, however, think that he could be in time.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But I am not changing my opinion of him based solely on last night.

Personally I have never yet thought him as the best defender in the world.

I do, however, think that he could be in time.

Fair enough - who do you have above him currently ? Ramos ? Varane ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

After last night I think it is fair to ask if the English media (and some fans) have been guilty of excessive hype.

Van Dijk is clearly an excellent player but I think it is still a little early to be anointing him as the best defender in the world.

But the media in this country love to talk up a player, possibly to give themselves more ammunition when they choose to have a go at that same player at a later date.

On this season's form VvD has definitely been the best in the PL but World's Best?

I agree. He definitely has the potential to be one of the worlds best but he's not there yet. Perhaps not his best game last night but when you are playing Messi and co its unfair to be overly critical. I wonder though whether a Barca or Real will look at VVD in a season or two as a replacement for their existing CB's and would that be what he needs to move to the next level. Of course that assumes Liverpool don't win the PL or CL next year

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Fair enough - who do you have above him currently ? Ramos ? Varane ?

Very difficult to say.

For several years I have been massively impressed by Chiellini and Bonucci but is that a fair comparison as they are a pair.

Perhaps that could be the last piece in VvD's jigsaw, a settled partnership (with Gomez?).

From a consistency and longevity point I would probably have to go for Ramos, with apologies to LB.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Very difficult to say.

For several years I have been massively impressed by Chiellini and Bonucci but is that a fair comparison as they are a pair.

Perhaps that could be the last piece in VvD's jigsaw, a settled partnership (with Gomez?).

From a consistency and longevity point I would probably have to go for Ramos, with apologies to LB.

Yeah Bonucci and Chiellini as a pair have been superb , it was strange how poor Bonucci was when he went to AC , Ramos - I think if you take away all his thuggery and antics he is still an outstanding CB - he has everything - pace , strength , ability on the ball topped off with a ruthless streak which does cross the Line too many times. If he was in the Prem he would double the amount of cards he has been given - Pepe was the same.

In regards a partner for VVD - Gomez is the future , perfect foil for him but it’s a shame he keeps getting an injury when getting into his stride - got to hope he can get through next season and really step up because he made a massive difference at the start of the season but it also wouldn’t surprise me to see Klopp buying someone as well

 

[NWJocko]

I’m a big fan of VVD but he was badly at fault for the first 2 goals last night unfortunately.

Great game to watch, thought Liverpool looked the better side for large parts of it but can’t miss the chances they did. Shame as I’d fancy them to get through if it ended 2-1 or 3-2, tough ask now.

Free kick from Messi was a thing of beauty.

 

[Fish]

Is it also fair to change a judgement based on one match or indeed one moment where a defender was just a bit too static - VVD should have reacted better to the ball coming off the bar but he still had a decent game last night , when you can highlight single errors from a player and they are in a very small number then it shows the quality of the player. Every player has that game or moment where they just don’t hit their height of ability in a game - last night for me doesn’t stop him being the best in the world



We did play superb at Barce - we got them that rattled in the second half we forced them to sit deep in their own ground - this is a Barce team that normally dominate any team they played - the difference between the two was they were clinical with their chances we weren’t - which is what Klopp has also said

It wasn’t a single error though, I think he was at fault or could have done better for 2 of the goals, obviously not the free kick, that was mind blowing.

Edit: NWJocko best me to it.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Very difficult to say.

For several years I have been massively impressed by Chiellini and Bonucci but is that a fair comparison as they are a pair.

Perhaps that could be the last piece in VvD's jigsaw, a settled partnership (with Gomez?).

From a consistency and longevity point I would probably have to go for Ramos, with apologies to LB.

Thought you knew the game.

Genuine question, Ramos (I think) is one of the most sent off players about. If he didnt play for a Real or a Barca, dont you think that his sending off count would be even higher? In which case how is he a great defender?

 

[Liverbirdie]

Yeah Bonucci and Chiellini as a pair have been superb , it was strange how poor Bonucci was when he went to AC , Ramos - I think if you take away all his thuggery and antics he is still an outstanding CB - he has everything - pace , strength , ability on the ball topped off with a ruthless streak which does cross the Line too many times. If he was in the Prem he would double the amount of cards he has been given - Pepe was the same.

In regards a partner for VVD - Gomez is the future , perfect foil for him but it’s a shame he keeps getting an injury when getting into his stride - got to hope he can get through next season and really step up because he made a massive difference at the start of the season but it also wouldn’t surprise me to see Klopp buying someone as well

Dont think Ramos is pacy.

 

[Dan2501]

Ramos isn't pacy? He started his career as a fledgling right-back, he definitely has pace. He's got everything. Still the best CB in the world for me, but VVD not far behind him.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Its like some people say Des Walker was the best....oh that fella who was out of position a lot so he had to slide on his derriere most of the time to make up the gap. Some fella also put VVD stats compared to Vidic up yesterday. Now dont get me wrong I think Vidic was immense, but some of the stats he was "ahead" of VVD on where laughable, as a supposed plus.

Some of the best defending is via anticipation, positional sense etc, and not just last ditch challenges. One is more spectacular than the other, but the other is better defending. Too many people are stats based now and dont know the game

Different perspectives, open your mind.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Ramos isn't pacy? He started his career as a fledgling right-back, he definitely has pace. He's got everything. Still the best CB in the world for me, but VVD not far behind him.

I know he started at RB and probably had more pace then. I wouldnt say he is a sprinter type now or for the last few years though.

 

[User62651]

Watched good bit of last night's game. Disappointing not just the loss but that the 2nd leg is probably not worth bothering with now. Barca didn't look all that for large spells and the crowd were on their back but with Messi really looking up for it in spells he was the difference but also not closed down quick enough. Suarez could show a little more humility too scoring against your former employers e.g. noted young Mbappe showing much respect and not celebrating when scoring against former team Monaco recently.

Assuming Ajax get past Spurs think every neutral will be rooting for them over Barca. Sick of the Spanish big 2 dominating this trophy.

 

[pokerjoke]

There’s no doubt VVD has the potential to be a great if he continues doing what he has this season for another 5 or more.
He’s had a fantastic season against good or very good strikers.

Against Barca he was against world class strikers.
Suarez probably on the wane but has been world class for years.
Messi one of the best 2 or the best for some.
No disgrace
The thing is it might help him become better realising his mistakes.
As they say if your not winning you should be learning.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I know he started at RB and probably had more pace then. I wouldnt say he is a sprinter type now or for the last few years though.

How often does Ramos need extreme pace?

As you say reading the situation is a greater asset, Bobby Moore was the best I ever saw for that in the English game.

Like VvD Ramos is fast enough and has done it at the very highest levels for club and country over a prolonged period.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I’m a big fan of VVD but he was badly at fault for the first 2 goals last night unfortunately.

Great game to watch, thought Liverpool looked the better side for large parts of it but can’t miss the chances they did. Shame as I’d fancy them to get through if it ended 2-1 or 3-2, tough ask now.

Free kick from Messi was a thing of beauty.

Disagree there Jocko. Henderson and Matip have to do better on the 1st one but when your playing aganst a team full of quality like Barca's, they can score goals like that.

That 2nd goal was a proper flukey goal, Robertson clears it and it hits Suarez' knee which hits the bar, it happened that quick i think VVD thought the ball was cleared.

That freekick though was world class.

Overall i dont think it was a 3 nil defeat in the sense we got battered, it was much closer than the result suggests, just beat by the better side who took their chances.

 

[NWJocko]

Disagree there Jocko. Henderson and Matip have to do better on the 1st one but when your playing aganst a team full of quality like Barca's, they can score goals like that.

That 2nd goal was a proper flukey goal, Robertson clears it and it hits Suarez' knee which hits the bar, it happened that quick i think VVD thought the ball was cleared.

That freekick though was world class.

Overall i dont think it was a 3 nil defeat in the sense we got battered, it was much closer than the result suggests, just beat by the better side who took their chances.

For the first goal VVD is the one watching Suarez run across him towards Matip who’s got his back to him!! He has to go with him then IMO but didn’t.

Second was a bit of a weird goal but again VVD just stopped, maybe thought it was cleared as you say.

 

[clubchamp98]

Salah and Mane are not great finishers though imo.
They score goals because they get so many chances.
At the start of the season I thought we needed a proper CF who scores the one and only chance he gets, I still belive that’s the case.
To play that well and get beat 3-0 was tough.
But we showed we can get through them but need to score when on top which we didn’t do.
They have quality and will always score if given the chances.
We need to start fast at home but that plays into their hands unless we get two early goals and can stop them scoring, that’s easier said than done.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Salah and Mane are not great finishers though imo.
They score goals because they get so many chances.
At the start of the season I thought we needed a proper CF who scores the one and only chance he gets, I still belive that’s the case.
To play that well and get beat 3-0 was tough.
But we showed we can get through them but need to score when on top which we didn’t do.
They have quality and will always score if given the chances.
We need to start fast at home but that plays into their hands unless we get two early goals and can stop them scoring, that’s easier said than done.

The bit in bold, he doesn’t and has never existed!

 

[Liverbirdie]

The bit in bold, he doesn’t and has never existed!

Agree, if he's only getting one chance a game in this team, he's not doing his job properly.