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And, we’re off.......2018/2019

Orikoru said:
I think our expectations are slightly different, and Sam would be underqualified for the role. ;) That said, I was happy when he was appointed manager of my country. Thought he was the ideal candidate at that time.


Are you suggesting he already had the defence sorted in a few short months?? I'd imagine he hoped to consolidate for the rest of the season and build the team in his image that summer. As I said, he wasn't given the chance. I think your board panicked when they appointed him in the first place to be honest, then as soon as you were safe they realised they actually didn't want him at all. The managerial equivalent of a deadline day panic buy.


Why do you have him as an avatar? Did you lose a bet?
Click to expand...

Our expectations are not different, you are just achieving them better than we are.

He had the defence sorted because he barely let anyone cross the half way line bar the CF. Full backs stopped going forward and crossing balls, Baines and Coleman! it's what they do (pedant alert, I know Coleman was largely injured but you get my point), they stopped the midfielders joining up with the striker. He sat everyone deep and squeezed the opposition attack with sheer weight of numbers. The aim was to do that and then pinch a goal from a rare corner or set piece. Turgid stuff, no thanks.

Managerial equivalent of a deadline day panic buy, couldn't agree more. Dreadful appointment on day 1, swhould never have happened.

Allardyce was asked when at Newcastle to be more attacking repeatedly before being sacked, he refused. It was a clear as day at Everton he would get sacked if he stayed the same. He has a method that works, same as Pullis. Plan B does not register. It works for survival purposes but very little else. If survive is all you want then get either of them. If you want some joy in your life, avoid.
 
Written by just a neutral fan on a footy website - nails it:-

FRAUDS
The last couple of days of the mailbag has been hilariously peppered by gloating halfwits revelling in smug superiority because a team they don’t like has either drawn consecutive games or lost a single game. I probably don’t need to point out that their ludicrously partial rantings and half-baked conclusions say a lot more about them than it does about the subjects they address; I have, however, noticed a similar theme running throughout much criticism of Liverpool and City, and of their coaches in particular.

It’s become the frame of reference for any crowing loon worth their salt, and usually goes like this: denigrate a coach’s previous successes, point out you’d always said they were actually rubbish, predict their team is going to suddenly collapse and then use all this to support a series of wild assertions about the individual’s personal character culminating in the ultimate conclusion that they are in fact a FRAUD.

We had to endure this nonsense for an entire year with Guardiola before City’s performances largely slayed the ‘Fraudiola’ meme, and now Klopp seems to be the latest coach subjected to a fierce cross examination of his personal and professional merits. It’s almost as if these people, who seem to have no knowledge of either football, history or human psychology, expect everyone to believe they’re hardened war veterans with wills forged in the steel of battle. They are, in fact, dorks who are too caught up in the narrative-generating machine of contemporary football marketing to actually enjoy the sport they seem so engaged with. It’s especially bizarre with Klopp, given that last year his victories over City were sometimes used to point out Guardiola’s continued FRAUDULENCE despite coaching City to a record-breaking league win.

The dork leaves no room for nuance. In their minds, a coach is not just a trainer but a mythical leader, a MANAGER. A MANAGER is either a Top Lad or a FRAUD. Ole, for example, is still in the Top Lad category. God forbid, however, he gets the job permanently and starts talking about tactics, rotates his team or experiences a blip in form and maybe takes out frustration on the referees. Foreign managers in particular very quickly find themselves slipping into FRAUD territory.

Smiddy, for example, aims a scattergun mishmash of bizarre accusations at Klopp, none of which make any sense or display any actual knowledge of anything, let alone football. Smiddy may well be a troll, but his bloviating does speak to a larger discourse in which managers and players must be mentally and physically perfect at all times, and in which luck must not exist for any winners of anything.

The fact is football is a fairly random sport without much on-pitch technological assistance, so some teams get lucky with bounces and decisions. Players and managers are imperfect human beings who are attempting to do their best, but sometimes perform badly. Sometimes they might say or do something that is a bit sh*tty.

Since when did we expect our title winners to never drop points? If we have the so-called strongest league in the world, why does everyone soil themselves when a top team draws a game? And why does anyone think a public display of mildly childish frustration illuminates the personal character of Jurgen Klopp? Why do people think Liverpool fans are arrogant? I am a neutral football fan who has lived in the city for a few years, and most Liverpool fans I know are strung out nervous wrecks who desperately hope their team doesn’t f**k it up again.

I get Man United fans hating Klopp and Guardiola for bringing success to their biggest rivals. What I don’t get is the mental gymnastics required to convince yourself that you can rumble a manipulator’s facade from a 2 minute press interview. All you’ve done is create various false images of other people in your own head, and enjoyed feeling a smug feeling of rightness about it. So go ahead, dorks. Enjoy feeling right while the actual teams the actual people actually coach work their way towards potentially winning a league title.
Sam H, Liverpool

(y)
 
Last edited:
Lord Tyrion said:
Our expectations are not different, you are just achieving them better than we are.

He had the defence sorted because he barely let anyone cross the half way line bar the CF. Full backs stopped going forward and crossing balls, Baines and Coleman! it's what they do (pedant alert, I know Coleman was largely injured but you get my point), they stopped the midfielders joining up with the striker. He sat everyone deep and squeezed the opposition attack with sheer weight of numbers. The aim was to do that and then pinch a goal from a rare corner or set piece. Turgid stuff, no thanks.

Managerial equivalent of a deadline day panic buy, couldn't agree more. Dreadful appointment on day 1, swhould never have happened.

Allardyce was asked when at Newcastle to be more attacking repeatedly before being sacked, he refused. It was a clear as day at Everton he would get sacked if he stayed the same. He has a method that works, same as Pullis. Plan B does not register. It works for survival purposes but very little else. If survive is all you want then get either of them. If you want some joy in your life, avoid.
Click to expand...
I just don't know what happened to Big Sam over the years. His Bolton team were fantastic. He put together some glorious attacking players, and they finished as high as 6th. But he seemingly never tried to emulate this approach again. His Blackburn team was ok but not on a par with Bolton. And by the time he went to West Ham, yes, he had adopted a much more pragmatic approach it seems. As you say, he has carved out a bit of a niche as a survival man only these days. I'm sure that's not the reputation he wanted to give off, but that's exactly why he only gets short-term appointments now, and no time to actually implement his own team.
 
Orikoru said:
I just don't know what happened to Big Sam over the years. His Bolton team were fantastic. He put together some glorious attacking players, and they finished as high as 6th. But he seemingly never tried to emulate this approach again. His Blackburn team was ok but not on a par with Bolton. And by the time he went to West Ham, yes, he had adopted a much more pragmatic approach it seems. As you say, he has carved out a bit of a niche as a survival man only these days. I'm sure that's not the reputation he wanted to give off, but that's exactly why he only gets short-term appointments now, and no time to actually implement his own team.
Click to expand...
Before you feel too sorry for him don't forget the 'stay up' bonuses he collects, the higher than usual salary because it is a panic appt and the pay off chunk when he is sacked. Only Jose can compete with Sam when it comes to sacking pay offs. He is a smart operator, quite rightly, when it comes to salary and contracts. He is not on his uppers.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Before you feel too sorry for him don't forget the 'stay up' bonuses he collects, the higher than usual salary because it is a panic appt and the pay off chunk when he is sacked. Only Jose can compete with Sam when it comes to sacking pay offs. He is a smart operator, quite rightly, when it comes to salary and contracts. He is not on his uppers.
Click to expand...
I didn't say I felt sorry for him, at all! I was just wondering why he changed his style and became more and more pragmatic over the years. Maybe it was so he could actively pursue the quick-fix appointments for a quick and easy payday.
 
Orikoru said:
I didn't say I felt sorry for him, at all! I was just wondering why he changed his style and became more and more pragmatic over the years. Maybe it was so he could actively pursue the quick-fix appointments for a quick and easy payday.
Click to expand...
Yup. He is the Red Adair of football (google that younger readers). The go to man when you are in big trouble but you pay a premium for the privelege. He has carved a tidy niche for himself and he does it very well.
 
Liverbirdie said:
Written by just a neutral fan on a footy website - nails it:-

FRAUDS
The last couple of days of the mailbag has been hilariously peppered by gloating halfwits revelling in smug superiority because a team they don’t like has either drawn consecutive games or lost a single game. I probably don’t need to point out that their ludicrously partial rantings and half-baked conclusions say a lot more about them than it does about the subjects they address; I have, however, noticed a similar theme running throughout much criticism of Liverpool and City, and of their coaches in particular.

It’s become the frame of reference for any crowing loon worth their salt, and usually goes like this: denigrate a coach’s previous successes, point out you’d always said they were actually rubbish, predict their team is going to suddenly collapse and then use all this to support a series of wild assertions about the individual’s personal character culminating in the ultimate conclusion that they are in fact a FRAUD.

We had to endure this nonsense for an entire year with Guardiola before City’s performances largely slayed the ‘Fraudiola’ meme, and now Klopp seems to be the latest coach subjected to a fierce cross examination of his personal and professional merits. It’s almost as if these people, who seem to have no knowledge of either football, history or human psychology, expect everyone to believe they’re hardened war veterans with wills forged in the steel of battle. They are, in fact, dorks who are too caught up in the narrative-generating machine of contemporary football marketing to actually enjoy the sport they seem so engaged with. It’s especially bizarre with Klopp, given that last year his victories over City were sometimes used to point out Guardiola’s continued FRAUDULENCE despite coaching City to a record-breaking league win.

The dork leaves no room for nuance. In their minds, a coach is not just a trainer but a mythical leader, a MANAGER. A MANAGER is either a Top Lad or a FRAUD. Ole, for example, is still in the Top Lad category. God forbid, however, he gets the job permanently and starts talking about tactics, rotates his team or experiences a blip in form and maybe takes out frustration on the referees. Foreign managers in particular very quickly find themselves slipping into FRAUD territory.

Smiddy, for example, aims a scattergun mishmash of bizarre accusations at Klopp, none of which make any sense or display any actual knowledge of anything, let alone football. Smiddy may well be a troll, but his bloviating does speak to a larger discourse in which managers and players must be mentally and physically perfect at all times, and in which luck must not exist for any winners of anything.

The fact is football is a fairly random sport without much on-pitch technological assistance, so some teams get lucky with bounces and decisions. Players and managers are imperfect human beings who are attempting to do their best, but sometimes perform badly. Sometimes they might say or do something that is a bit sh*tty.

Since when did we expect our title winners to never drop points? If we have the so-called strongest league in the world, why does everyone soil themselves when a top team draws a game? And why does anyone think a public display of mildly childish frustration illuminates the personal character of Jurgen Klopp? Why do people think Liverpool fans are arrogant? I am a neutral football fan who has lived in the city for a few years, and most Liverpool fans I know are strung out nervous wrecks who desperately hope their team doesn’t *** it up again.

I get Man United fans hating Klopp and Guardiola for bringing success to their biggest rivals. What I don’t get is the mental gymnastics required to convince yourself that you can rumble a manipulator’s facade from a 2 minute press interview. All you’ve done is create various false images of other people in your own head, and enjoyed feeling a smug feeling of rightness about it. So go ahead, dorks. Enjoy feeling right while the actual teams the actual people actually coach work their way towards potentially winning a league title.
Sam H, Liverpool

(y)
Click to expand...

Excellent post

I Fully expect if City do win the title then social media will be all over Klopp calling him a failure and the word bottle will no doubt come out - we are and indeed now Spurs are going head to head work according the media the best Prem team ever , about 3 months ago everyone was desperate for someone other than City to win - someone to beat the oil money , as soon as Liverpool start to seriously challenge its then all hands behind City - i don’t get it , i don’t get how others are so desperate for City to win.

Listening to the especially Everton and Utd fans last night and I couldn’t understand how they would want their own team to lose , season ticket holders not bothering to go because they would rather their own team lost - the bitterness between teams seem to be getting worse but I don’t think many Liverpool fans really care about other teams -it’s only about where we finish in the league , don’t care where Everton or Utd or City etc finish

If we are to get over the line and it’s going to be bloody tough then it’s going to be amazing for Liverpool fans , the club and the players it will be an amazing celebration just as it was after Istanbul but none of it will be about any other team or about ensuring there is rubbing other teams nose it


In regards the discussion about Silva and Fat Sam - Allardyce has a specific management plan , it’s all about mid table security for his clubs and earning the bonus for him , I don’t see him being for a club beyond that - same with Hodgson etc

As for Silva - his history shows short periods at clubs , it’s hard to judge how good or bad he is as a manager , a fair bit has been spent at Everton but don’t see them as having moved forward much and not sure Silva will do it but sacking a manager every year won’t get them anywhere. Expect Watford fans are believing in a bit of Karma right now as he struggles a bit
 
Liverpoolphil said:
, i don’t get how others are so desperate for City to win.
Click to expand...

That's because you don't understand just how hated Liverpool FC and their fans are by a great swathe of people.

You've not been successful in a long time so you've not had to endure the hatred that comes your way simple by being successful in the modern, post-'93 era of football, where coverage is everywhere and the internet gives anyone with a CPU the ability to voice their opinion.

If you were to become successful, on top of the fact that you're already not popular amongst many football fans, then you'll soon see why a lot of Man Utd fans complain about the notion of ABU.

If you win the league this year, then you should revel in the almost guaranteed ABL culture that will start to grow. Wear it as a badge of honour. You're successful and you're feared.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Excellent post

I Fully expect if City do win the title then social media will be all over Klopp calling him a failure and the word bottle will no doubt come out - we are and indeed now Spurs are going head to head work according the media the best Prem team ever , about 3 months ago everyone was desperate for someone other than City to win - someone to beat the oil money , as soon as Liverpool start to seriously challenge its then all hands behind City - i don’t get it , i don’t get how others are so desperate for City to win.

Listening to the especially Everton and Utd fans last night and I couldn’t understand how they would want their own team to lose , season ticket holders not bothering to go because they would rather their own team lost - the bitterness between teams seem to be getting worse but I don’t think many Liverpool fans really care about other teams -it’s only about where we finish in the league , don’t care where Everton or Utd or City etc finish

If we are to get over the line and it’s going to be bloody tough then it’s going to be amazing for Liverpool fans , the club and the players it will be an amazing celebration just as it was after Istanbul but none of it will be about any other team or about ensuring there is rubbing other teams nose it


In regards the discussion about Silva and Fat Sam - Allardyce has a specific management plan , it’s all about mid table security for his clubs and earning the bonus for him , I don’t see him being for a club beyond that - same with Hodgson etc

As for Silva - his history shows short periods at clubs , it’s hard to judge how good or bad he is as a manager , a fair bit has been spent at Everton but don’t see them as having moved forward much and not sure Silva will do it but sacking a manager every year won’t get them anywhere. Expect Watford fans are believing in a bit of Karma right now as he struggles a bit
Click to expand...
You need to look closer to home, I reckon there might be a LPool fan on here who has put his hard earned cash on Everton being relegated!

Which category do you put him in?

You change your tune to fit your narrative, West Ham Everton etc were meant to struggle, Spurs had no chance as they had signed no one.

Please show were people were saying anyone but City, you’ve stated it twice now!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
adam6177 said:
I guess thats always the argument....if the contact doesnt actually make you fall over then isnt going to ground a dive. But then how else do refs know you've been fouled. I've got a feeling that argument is just like a circle....
Click to expand...
Players go down now and ask the ref a question.
But there are limits and some players cross the line.
But it’s here to stay.
 
Orikoru said:
Are you suggesting he already had the defence sorted in a few short months?? I'd imagine he hoped to consolidate for the rest of the season and build the team in his image that summer. As I said, he wasn't given the chance. I think your board panicked when they appointed him in the first place to be honest, then as soon as you were safe they realised they actually didn't want him at all. The managerial equivalent of a deadline day panic buy.
Click to expand...
He knew he wasn’t first choice, it was common knowledge we’d approached Silva, he was given an 18 month contract because he refused the 6 month one as he knew he’d be replaced, the 18th month contract effectively gave him the pay off.

You’d hope every manager has a plan B, C, etc, Allardyce displayed none of that.
1-0 down he wouldn’t go for the draw, he’d bring defenders on to ensure it didn’t get worse.
 
Dan2501 said:
It is true. We were playing lovely football, controlling possession, having more shots than basically every team we faced and then put in a great performance against Liverpool only to lose it at the death. Since then it's all gone Pete Tong, confidence has dropped and the quality of football has dropped off. I thought the Burnley win would be the turning point but obviously not, as you say the Watford game will be huge.
Click to expand...
Can a mistake by your keeper in the dying moments really affect confidence this much.
You played well just unlucky.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Excellent post

I Fully expect if City do win the title then social media will be all over Klopp calling him a failure and the word bottle will no doubt come out - we are and indeed now Spurs are going head to head work according the media the best Prem team ever , about 3 months ago everyone was desperate for someone other than City to win - someone to beat the oil money , as soon as Liverpool start to seriously challenge its then all hands behind City - i don’t get it , i don’t get how others are so desperate for City to win.

Listening to the especially Everton and Utd fans last night and I couldn’t understand how they would want their own team to lose , season ticket holders not bothering to go because they would rather their own team lost - the bitterness between teams seem to be getting worse but I don’t think many Liverpool fans really care about other teams -it’s only about where we finish in the league , don’t care where Everton or Utd or City etc finish

If we are to get over the line and it’s going to be bloody tough then it’s going to be amazing for Liverpool fans , the club and the players it will be an amazing celebration just as it was after Istanbul but none of it will be about any other team or about ensuring there is rubbing other teams nose it


In regards the discussion about Silva and Fat Sam - Allardyce has a specific management plan , it’s all about mid table security for his clubs and earning the bonus for him , I don’t see him being for a club beyond that - same with Hodgson etc

As for Silva - his history shows short periods at clubs , it’s hard to judge how good or bad he is as a manager , a fair bit has been spent at Everton but don’t see them as having moved forward much and not sure Silva will do it but sacking a manager every year won’t get them anywhere. Expect Watford fans are believing in a bit of Karma right now as he struggles a bit
Click to expand...
Best Premier league team ever are you serious.
This is by a long shot nowhere near the best Liverpool team ever but your above the best premier team ever,Do is a favour.

I bet there is not one Manchester Utd fan that doesn’t want Spurs to win the title over City or Liverpool,and I bet you would struggle to find a Utd supporter who would want Liverpool to win over City.

Gloating and goading other teams fans is what football is all about.
Banter is another thing altogether.
Your post tells me you don’t understand the hatred Liverpool fans have over Utd and Visa Versa.

I have great mates who support Liverpool and I can promise this if they win the league they will go on about it for months.
 
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