And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Hobbit]

I do believe Lingard is overrated - I don’t see a top international footballer there but he seems to have pace and a knack of popping up at the right time to score a goal

One thing to note about Martial and Rashfords “stats” ( don’t really look at them because they don’t paint a whole picture ) is how many of those games are as the main striker ? It seems from when I have watched them - when Lukaku plays he is central and that’s it , Rashford and Martial are both shunted out wide ( especially Rashford ) like the way Mourinho played at Chelsea with Drogba. Now imo is you had Rashford central with Martial and Sanchez supporting but all three able to interchange that imo would be a defenders nightmare and a front three to be feared.

Lukaku scores goals - yep , he also goes through long dry spells and doesn’t seem to score big goals , the goals seem to be say the 2nd or 3rd in a 3 nil and he also seems to score in batches of twos which whilst give him good stats on paper actually mean a bit of a flat track bully ( which I have always thought about him )

#obssesed Liverpool fans lol ( hey Pete).

Lingard is pivotal for Utd his link up play and support play is fantastic,he’s also very very fit and is always moving,very hard to pick up.

I think we might see a new Lukaku under Solskjaer because his place is definitely under threat.
If we defend like we have and today we will always need to score one more than the opposition.

Seriously guys, have a look at the overall stats for Martial, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard. The first 3 are complete packages. What surprised me was Lukaku's pass completion, chance creation and assists. Pretty much on a par with Martial and Rashford. He's a lot more than a flat track bully. If the stats say he's comparable with his peers, then he's comparable. Also surprised me but for all the wrong reasons was Lingard's very poor stats. His assists, chance creation and pass completion etc is very poor. As for popping up with goals... 4 goals playing in the position he does in a team that far up the league is hardly popping up. He looks busy but his stats very clearly say he's rubbish.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

And I agree with you but having shelled out that money, you have to get the best out of him and at the moment as an impact player seems to be the best way of doing it. I definitely agree that he's a little out of his depth at this level and better suited to an Everton or similar but you can't blame them for hiking the price as high as possible and taking the cash United threw at the player. Having said that 45 goals in 79 internationals is an impressive record so Belgium get the best from him (and I'd love Sterling to have a fraction of that return but that's just my opinion)

Have you seen his first touch?? It’s abysmal for an international pro, never mind a £90m striker.

For the size of him, he should be doing better.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Seriously guys, have a look at the overall stats for Martial, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard. The first 3 are complete packages. What surprised me was Lukaku's pass completion, chance creation and assists. Pretty much on a par with Martial and Rashford. He's a lot more than a flat track bully. If the stats say he's comparable with his peers, then he's comparable. Also surprised me but for all the wrong reasons was Lingard's very poor stats. His assists, chance creation and pass completion etc is very poor. As for popping up with goals... 4 goals playing in the position he does in a team that far up the league is hardly popping up. He looks busy but his stats very clearly say he's rubbish.

Judging a player solely on stats is dangerous. For the quality Lingard May lack his work rate and effort certainly makes up for it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Have you seen his first touch?? It’s abysmal for an international pro, never mind a £90m striker.

For the size of him, he should be doing better.

It's definitely a weakness and he seems to have been found out in the PL because of it (or United haven't found a way to use him link up play better) but he definitely seems a different player in a Belgium shirt.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seriously guys, have a look at the overall stats for Martial, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard. The first 3 are complete packages. What surprised me was Lukaku's pass completion, chance creation and assists. Pretty much on a par with Martial and Rashford. He's a lot more than a flat track bully. If the stats say he's comparable with his peers, then he's comparable. Also surprised me but for all the wrong reasons was Lingard's very poor stats. His assists, chance creation and pass completion etc is very poor. As for popping up with goals... 4 goals playing in the position he does in a team that far up the league is hardly popping up. He looks busy but his stats very clearly say he's rubbish.

Stats don’t tell the whole picture - they can supplement an opinion but a player shouldn’t be judged solely on stats , like I said you don’t take into account Martial and Rashford both having to play in the wider areas whilst Lukaku has the central role - I have no doubt that Rashford would score a lot more consistently if played through the middle of the park and in a fluid front three. To suggest Lukaku is the complete package based on stats seems mad to me

 

[Slime]

Have you seen his first touch?? It’s abysmal for an international pro, never mind a £90m striker.

For the size of him, he should be doing better.

Whilst I agree with the above it has to be said that he's been feeding off scraps for years at United.
With a decent supply line I'd expect him to have a far greater impact .................... let's just wait and see.

 

[Hobbit]

Judging a player solely on stats is dangerous. For the quality Lingard May lack his work rate and effort certainly makes up for it.

But where is Lingard's end product? His pass completion/assists/goals.... just what are you measuring him on? I genuinely can't see him being good enough.

Stats don’t tell the whole picture - they can supplement an opinion but a player shouldn’t be judged solely on stats , like I said you don’t take into account Martial and Rashford both having to play in the wider areas whilst Lukaku has the central role - I have no doubt that Rashford would score a lot more consistently if played through the middle of the park and in a fluid front three. To suggest Lukaku is the complete package based on stats seems mad to me

And you can't use "what might be's" as evidence either. That said, I think Martial and Rashford played as a front 2 with Sanchez, on form, would destroy most teams. But like your "might be's" its not evidence based.

Clubs haven't bought into big stats programmes for the sheer hell of it. They tell a (true) story.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Whilst I agree with the above it has to be said that he's been feeding off scraps for years at United.
With a decent supply line I'd expect him to have a far greater impact .................... let's just wait and see.

He was feeding off scraps at Everton too.

If I’m proved wrong then I’ll hold my hands up but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the new manger,whoever he is, ship him out in 12/18months time.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Whilst I agree with the above it has to be said that he's been feeding off scraps for years at United.
With a decent supply line I'd expect him to have a far greater impact .................... let's just wait and see.

It's an interesting point and a valid one. The way United have played since he came clearly hasn't suited him totally. It will be interesting to see how Solskjaer uses him and whether improved service will let him play to the same potential he does for Belgium. At the moment, United are playing with so much more movement and pace and with a dominant front line I wonder how close to the top four they can get. Only three points off Arsenal and so Europa League football may not be a bad return given their awful start. Whether they can bridge an 8 point gap to Chelsea remains to be seen

 

[Deleted member 1740]

But where is Lingard's end product? His pass completion/assists/goals.... just what are you measuring him on? I genuinely can't see him being good enough.



And you can't use "what might be's" as evidence either. That said, I think Martial and Rashford played as a front 2 with Sanchez, on form, would destroy most teams. But like your "might be's" its not evidence based.

Clubs haven't bought into big stats programmes for the sheer hell of it. They tell a (true) story.

When I’ve watched him. I don’t let stats cloud my judgement.

One of the biggest misleading stats is the Assist stat.

Good enough for who?

 

[pokerjoke]

Lingard is not a striker Brian Lukaku is so there’s no comparing the 2.
I bet Henderson’s pass completion stats are great but I bet many are forward

He was feeding off scraps at Everton too.

If I’m proved wrong then I’ll hold my hands up but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the new manger,whoever he is, ship him out in 12/18months time.

I agree unless he shows a major improvement.

 

[Beezerk]

Stats don’t tell the whole picture - they can supplement an opinion but a player shouldn’t be judged solely on stats , like I said you don’t take into account Martial and Rashford both having to play in the wider areas whilst Lukaku has the central role - I have no doubt that Rashford would score a lot more consistently if played through the middle of the park and in a fluid front three. To suggest Lukaku is the complete package based on stats seems mad to me

Would Lingard get a place in the Liverpool team? I don’t think he would but I’d be interested in Liverpools fans thoughts on it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would Lingard get a place in the Liverpool team? I don’t think he would but I’d be interested in Liverpools fans thoughts on it.

Not a chance - don’t think he would even make the bench. He would maybe play in the cup games but couldn’t see where he would fit in - the Utd player I would take is Martial and also Rashford as a replacement for Sturridge

 

[Hobbit]

Lingard is not a striker Brian Lukaku is so there’s no comparing the 2.
I bet Henderson’s pass completion stats are great but I bet many are forward


I agree unless he shows a major improvement.

The original inclusion of Lingard in "who's best" came from Phil. Utd have 3 strikers, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku. Rashford excites me the most, with Martial close behind. Lingard, in my opinion competes with Sanchez.

It'll be interesting to see what style and freedom Utd play with under the new manager. Lukaku doesn't have the movement for a typical Utd style, but he does offer them a very different, and strong, option if they need to change. It could, equally, be argued that Lukaku has done pretty well under a different style. I'd keep him but I'd let Lingard go. There's better out there.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The original inclusion of Lingard in "who's best" came from Phil. Utd have 3 strikers, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku. Rashford excites me the most, with Martial close behind. Lingard, in my opinion competes with Sanchez.

It'll be interesting to see what style and freedom Utd play with under the new manager. Lukaku doesn't have the movement for a typical Utd style, but he does offer them a very different, and strong, option if they need to change. It could, equally, be argued that Lukaku has done pretty well under a different style. I'd keep him but I'd let Lingard go. There's better out there.

Lukaku will always be marmite, however, you can’t ignore the fact he scores goals, people have moaned about Utd’s negative style of play under Jose and lack of attacking football, yet Lukaku still managed 27 goals in 51 games last season, incidentally the best return for a Utd player since Van Persie in over 5 seasons.
Is he the answer to Utd moving forward? Don’t know, but he’s certainly the best out of the current crop.

 

[Hobbit]

Lukaku will always be marmite, however, you can’t ignore the fact he scores goals, people have moaned about Utd’s negative style of play under Jose and lack of attacking football, yet Lukaku still managed 27 goals in 51 games last season, incidentally the best return for a Utd player since Van Persie in over 5 seasons.
Is he the answer to Utd moving forward? Don’t know, but he’s certainly the best out of the current crop.

Here's a daft thought. As you get older you look back on the great players you've seen, and sometimes their styles. Of similar styles, John Toshack. Great player in an even better team. Big bustling sort of a player - flat track bully? He didn't score like Lukaku but there's more than a passing resemblance in their styles.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Here's a daft thought. As you get older you look back on the great players you've seen, and sometimes their styles. Of similar styles, John Toshack. Great player in an even better team. Big bustling sort of a player - flat track bully? He didn't score like Lukaku but there's more than a passing resemblance in their styles.

I played with a mate last week who’s a season ticket holder in the Stretford End and was over the moon Jose has gone, he said he would watch Lukaku making runs down the channels or looking to get in behind defenders and the ball would go back and sideways and you could literally feel his frustration.
Fact is, just like Toshack or Andy Gray etc, managers knew their strengths and if you are going to use him in your team you have to play to that strength.
The commentary today was all about Utd playing with a freedom and a purpose, if they have been shackled the blame can’t be put on certain players.

 

[Liverbirdie]

#obssesed Liverpool fans lol ( hey Pete).

Lingard is pivotal for Utd his link up play and support play is fantastic,he’s also very very fit and is always moving,very hard to pick up.

I think we might see a new Lukaku under Solskjaer because his place is definitely under threat.
If we defend like we have and today we will always need to score one more than the opposition.

Nice try Tony, but lets face it, Phil talks about all the top teams when talking shoit. Think he's just including youse out of habit.

Pogba - I think the truth is part of both arguments.

Mourinho didnt use him (or the team) to the best of their abilities. Pogba also didnt put the effort in. I know if he was a Liverpool player, I would be mortified how he can suddenly find a few more gears. I also wouldnt currently swap him for Gini - my midfield man of the season for us.

 

[Dan2501]

A bit of talk about Jose-Pogba and "massaging Pogba's ego" and I don't think Jose had to do that at all, if anything it was Jose's ego that was the problem. He just had to avoid slagging him off in the press every other week and avoid handing him the captaincy then publicly taking it away and then finally had to give him the freedom to attack. Solksjaer hasn't had time to do a lot, but one thing he has managed to do is give Pogba the credit he deserves and embrace him for the level of talent he possesses, and then tactically use him in a way that allows him to move dynamically into attacking areas. It's not rocket science, Mourinho's just stubborn and egotistical, which is why he's lost every dressing room and the confidence of every board he's ever worked for in a matter of seasons.

 

[Orikoru]

What did you think of Kane’s today ?

Hadn't seen it so I've gone on Twitter to find a video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1079065021861294080

If you watch the defender's left heel it kicks back and catches Kane's knee which sends him down. Or that's how it looks. So not a dive in my view. But this is the only angle I've seen and it is also a bit blurry, so if you have a better vid I'll gladly have another look. But yea, based on this video it looks like he tried to jump the challenge and the defender's heel catches his knee, so he goes down - holding his knee.