Alterations to WHS?

[wjemather]

So, let us say I've a 4BBB match in a club tournament. I've a quick check on handicap allowances a few days before. I do so by firstly checking what they'd be if I started with CH as a whole number. I then do the same assuming CH is a decimal. I find that, when CH is treated as a whole number I either get an extra shot / my opponents get a shot less, compared to treating CH as a decimal.

In the above scenario, it would be in my best interest to NOT bring a calculator when going to play the match, and hope the opponents do not do so either?

And, if the opposite is true, then it WOULD be in my interest to ensure I've a calculator. So, my opponents may have worked it all out when they arrived at the club, based on the CH whole numbers. Explained the shot situation, and then I can get my Casio out and show them that I actually get an extra shot / they get a shot less, based on the more detailed calculation.

According to current guidance and information from the handicapping chiefs at EG, from April 1st...

If you are playing 4BBB match play, the PH allowance will be 100% and the strokes received will be 90% of the difference from the lowest.
There is no fiddling to be done - with or without a calculator, the result is exactly the same. Machine precision calculations in this format have been abandoned in favour of easy on-the-tee mental arithmetic.

In 4BBB stroke play, the PH allowance is 85% and all calculations will be done by the software being used to manage the competition.

 

[Swango1980]

According to current guidance and information from the handicapping chiefs at EG, from April 1st...

If you are playing 4BBB match play, the PH allowance will be 100% and the strokes received will be 90% of the difference from the lowest.
There is no fiddling to be done - with or without a calculator, the result is exactly the same. Machine precision calculations in this format have been abandoned in favour of easy on-the-tee mental arithmetic.

In 4BBB stroke play, the PH allowance is 85% and all calculations will be done by the software being used to manage the competition.

I assume it specifies 100% of EXACT Course Handicap?

So a player will now that if one player is off 9.4 (lowest in group) and another of 23.6, then they must take 90% off 14.2, to get 13 strokes. Rather than the player thinking it is 90% off (24-9=15) to get 14 strokes.

Also, I'd say that calculating 90% on the tee is fairly straight forward arithmetic (although even that is beyond quite a few people). I'm not sure working out 90% of decimal numbers is quite as straight forward to many people?

 

[D-S]

I assume it specifies 100% of EXACT Course Handicap?

So a player will now that if one player is off 9.4 (lowest in group) and another of 23.6, then they must take 90% off 14.2, to get 13 strokes. Rather than the player thinking it is 90% off (24-9=15) to get 14 strokes.

Also, I'd say that calculating 90% on the tee is fairly straight forward arithmetic (although even that is beyond quite a few people). I'm not sure working out 90% of decimal numbers is quite as straight forward to many people?

Your Course Handicap is an unrounded number. For 4BB matchplay, your PH is a rounded number, rounded from your CH. So only rounded numbers (your PH) are used for establishing the difference, so therefore it will always be 90% of a rounded number and therefore easier to calculate.
This is a very recent change and it does simplify 4BB matchplay calculations but sort of confuses the CH unrounded change as in all other allowances it is not really possible to do in your head and if you do it from CH boards with rounded numbers you will get a different result from that gained by using an app.

 

[nickjdavis]

I assume it specifies 100% of EXACT Course Handicap?

So a player will now that if one player is off 9.4 (lowest in group) and another of 23.6, then they must take 90% off 14.2, to get 13 strokes. Rather than the player thinking it is 90% off (24-9=15) to get 14 strokes.

Also, I'd say that calculating 90% on the tee is fairly straight forward arithmetic (although even that is beyond quite a few people). I'm not sure working out 90% of decimal numbers is quite as straight forward to many people?

No.

The example in the guidance shows handicaps being rounded before the difference is determined. See the 2nd table in post 553.

 

[Swango1980]

No.

The example in the guidance shows handicaps being rounded before the difference is determined. See the 2nd table in post 553.

OK. I may be getting more confused than I need to be based on the general chat.

So, currently, Course Handicap is a whole number (in England). In 4BBB matchplay we work out 90% of that whole number to get PH, and then take full difference from there.

In April, Course Handicap is a decimal. PH is a whole number, so in this case the PH is no longer 90% of CH. Instead PH is effectively what our CH is now (with the CR-Par bit added). The 90% bit is then thrown in after PH is calculated, and applied to the full difference in PH.

Anyone know why they couldn't just keep it like it has been since WHS introduced? Course Handicap is just a whole number. Playing Handicap apply the percentage. And go from there

 

[Imurg]

And there was me thinking charging electric cars was hard work..........

 

[D-S]

OK. I may be getting more confused than I need to be based on the general chat.

So, currently, Course Handicap is a whole number (in England). In 4BBB matchplay we work out 90% of that whole number to get PH, and then take full difference from there.

In April, Course Handicap is a decimal. PH is a whole number, so in this case the PH is no longer 90% of CH. Instead PH is effectively what our CH is now (with the CR-Par bit added). The 90% bit is then thrown in after PH is calculated, and applied to the full difference in PH.

Anyone know why they couldn't just keep it like it has been since WHS introduced? Course Handicap is just a whole number. Playing Handicap apply the percentage. And go from there

Because they like using the phrase ‘machine precision’?

 

[doublebogey7]

OK. I may be getting more confused than I need to be based on the general chat.

So, currently, Course Handicap is a whole number (in England). In 4BBB matchplay we work out 90% of that whole number to get PH, and then take full difference from there.

In April, Course Handicap is a decimal. PH is a whole number, so in this case the PH is no longer 90% of CH. Instead PH is effectively what our CH is now (with the CR-Par bit added). The 90% bit is then thrown in after PH is calculated, and applied to the full difference in PH.

Anyone know why they couldn't just keep it like it has been since WHS introduced? Course Handicap is just a whole number. Playing Handicap apply the percentage. And go from there

As I understand it no. We are going back to the pre WHS way of applying the shots given/taken. So we take our rounded CH deduct the lowest handicap in the group and take 90% of that.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Does the App/website basically allow the player to act as a handicap committee member does now in the UK i.e. input the scores from a list of worldwide courses? Is there any oversight to this?

Does your handicap committee physically input every score? Basically.

 

[wjemather]

I assume it specifies 100% of EXACT Course Handicap?

So a player will now that if one player is off 9.4 (lowest in group) and another of 23.6, then they must take 90% off 14.2, to get 13 strokes. Rather than the player thinking it is 90% off (24-9=15) to get 14 strokes.

Also, I'd say that calculating 90% on the tee is fairly straight forward arithmetic (although even that is beyond quite a few people). I'm not sure working out 90% of decimal numbers is quite as straight forward to many people?

It doesn't make any difference. Playing Handicaps are integers.
100% of the rounded Course Handicap = 100% of the unrounded Course Handicap, rounded

 

[wjemather]

Does your handicap committee physically input every score? Basically.

Handicap committees currently have to enter all non-GB&I scores.

 

[AussieKB]

When I'm in England in May I will be playing a few 4BBB, luckily I will be with a few GM/SEC so am sure they will know what is going on, but I will try and get them to all play off the stick.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No your HI will not change. The equation that calculates your CH will.

Your 100% CH will still be an Integer. However, in order to calcualte PH on anything less than 100%, your 'unrounded CH' will be used, but only as long as you have the capability to do it to 'machine precision'. (some form of calculator or table that has done it for you). Your PH will be a whole figure.

I think the confusion arises from the fact that the document goes into great detail to explain how to handle 'mixed' & 'multiple tee' situations which is where the 'Par Adjustment' comes in.

If you don't play in 'Mixed' events, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

If the calculation of a differential for a single round now includes CR-Par how can my diff for a round NOT change if CR and par are not the same.

i also remain confused as different posts seems to say say slightly different things or use slightly different terminology for what seems to be the same thing.

 

[Swango1980]

If the calculation of a differential for a single round now includes CR-Par how can my diff for a round NOT change if CR and par are not the same.

The differential doesn't include CR-par. The Course Handicap calc includes that

Differential is still (Adjusted Gross - CR - PCC) x 113/Slope

Course Handicap will be Index x Slope/113 + (CR-Par)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The differential doesn't include CR-par. The Course Handicap calc includes that

Differential is still (Adjusted Gross - CR - PCC) x 113/Slope

Course Handicap will be Index x Slope/113 + (CR-Par)

OK. Good. That’s clear to me now. And CR is NOT a round number and for the course and tees I am playing will be provided to me somehow. My PH is then very simply the nearest whole number to my CH and that too will be provided to me - or maybe I get provided with my PH as CH is not easily provided in table form, and is of no use in any case as what matters as my starting point for me working out shots received/allowance for any round and/or match is now my PH and NOT my CH.

If I am still getting this wrong I apologise, but that only highlights my continued confusion. And I haven’t even thought further about shots given/received for different formats.

 

[Swango1980]

OK. Good. That’s clear to me now. And CR is NOT a round number and for the course and tees I am playing will be provided to me somehow. My PH is then very simply the nearest whole number to my CH and that too will be provided to me - or maybe I get provided with my PH as CH is not easily provided in table form, and is of no use in any case as what matters as my starting point for me working out shots received/allowance for any round and/or match is now my PH and NOT my CH.

I know the theory behind the CR-Par change. But as I'm no longer handicap sec, I've not closely followed the advice about whole numbers and decimal numbers, when they are used and not used, when you should be using machine precision or not, and what they've changed in defining Playing Handicap (which certainly seems to have changed in 4BBB).

So I'll just wait and see what happens in April. However, given my club only found out before Xmas that you take full diff from the PH (90% CH) in 4BBB match play, after I told them, I'm not sure I'll find out much from club. So I'll probably learn by reading from other players experiences and questions in this forum

 

[Voyager EMH]

OK. Good. That’s clear to me now. And CR is NOT a round number and for the course and tees I am playing will be provided to me somehow. My PH is then very simply the nearest whole number to my CH and that too will be provided to me - or maybe I get provided with my PH as CH is not easily provided in table form, and is of no use in any case as what matters as my starting point for me working out shots received/allowance for any round and/or match is now my PH and NOT my CH.

If I am still getting this wrong I apologise, but that only highlights my continued confusion. And I haven’t even thought further about shots given/received for different formats.

I am wondering whether a worked example might help you.
A little more complicated for those with a HI that is 3 significant figures.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am wondering whether a worked example might help you.
A little more complicated for those with a HI that is 3 significant figures.

View attachment 51560

Ok…so after the simple long multi you get 3.992 and that is your CH

But you have then factored by 95% that CH … to get your individual stableford PH - which I assume you’d then round. And I have read and understood from earlier posts that PH is simply the nearest whole number to you CH…and that you then apply the 95% .

 

[Swango1980]

I am wondering whether a worked example might help you.
A little more complicated for those with a HI that is 3 significant figures.

View attachment 51560

Although some say WHS is simpler than what we had before, those mathematical workings makes me think this isn't strictly true. I don't remember golfers having to get involved in such mathematics in the old days to understand what handicap / shots given they get.

I think the most complex it ever got was to work out 90% of a whole number

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Although some say WHS is simpler than what we had before, those mathematical workings makes me think this isn't strictly true. I don't remember golfers having to get involved in such mathematics in the old days to understand what handicap / shots given they get.

I think the most complex it ever got was to work out 90% of a whole number

Do we have to now?

Can’t say I have had to do anything more complicated than work out the number of shots given in match play.