Alterations to WHS?

[wjemather]

Thanks for the notification of the update. Simple answer here ........ avoid Mixed 4BBB wherever possible.

It doesn't just apply to mixed - the examples used mixed-tees because it covers everything without having to duplicate things.

 

[Swango1980]

It seems there is another change for 4BBB match play. The example on page 46 of the updated guidance uploaded by EG today has been amended.

Guidance version 2.2:

View attachment 51499

Guidance version 2.3:

View attachment 51501

So basically a throwback to how it used to be done, i.e. 90% of the difference, rather than full difference after allowances have been applied.

The mixed-tee calculator has also been updated accordingly.

I'm puzzled by the second table (Version 2.3)

Up to now, the Course Handicap is simply the (Index x Slope/113), but now with CR-Par added. The Playing Handicap was then the CH multiplied by the allowance %.

But the table seems to suggest Course Handicap is still (Index x Slope/113) WITHOUT CR-Par. Then the Playing Handicap is Course Handicap adjusted by CR-Par. Then there is no real allowance applied to any of these handicaps. Rather, as you say, it just looks at the difference between Playing Handicaps, and then AFTER this throws in the 90% adjustment.

As Nick said, this seems absurd. Not least, my CLUB had obviously only just got used to the latest way to work out handicap allowances for 4BBB. After sending out the old guidance for this years Winter League, I e-mailed them to let them know this was outdated. So a day later they sent an e-mail to the entire club instructing them all the latest way to do it. Looks like they will have to send another e-mail out to the entire club, telling them to forget what they said just before Xmas, and it is back to the old way.

 

[Swango1980]

Actually, I may not have interpreted the table properly. Trying to figure out what "Par Adjust" is

 

[wjemather]

I'm puzzled by the second table (Version 2.3)

Up to now, the Course Handicap is simply the (Index x Slope/113), but now with CR-Par added. The Playing Handicap was then the CH multiplied by the allowance %.

But the table seems to suggest Course Handicap is still (Index x Slope/113) WITHOUT CR-Par. Then the Playing Handicap is Course Handicap adjusted by CR-Par. Then there is no real allowance applied to any of these handicaps. Rather, as you say, it just looks at the difference between Playing Handicaps, and then AFTER this throws in the 90% adjustment.

As Nick said, this seems absurd. Not least, my CLUB had obviously only just got used to the latest way to work out handicap allowances for 4BBB. After sending out the old guidance for this years Winter League, I e-mailed them to let them know this was outdated. So a day later they sent an e-mail to the entire club instructing them all the latest way to do it. Looks like they will have to send another e-mail out to the entire club, telling them to forget what they said just before Xmas, and it is back to the old way.

Actually, I may not have interpreted the table properly. Trying to figure out what "Par Adjust" is

CR-Par is included in the CH calculation in the example. It is then adjusted by the difference in pars between tees (i.e. the mixed tee adjustment) to reach the PH.

 

[rulefan]

They call it a "mixed gruesome" at my club.

I though that related to Mixed Greensomes

 

[Swango1980]

CR-Par is included in the CH calculation in the example. It is then adjusted by the difference in pars between tees (i.e. the mixed tee adjustment) to reach the PH.

Ahhh, OK, got it. Forgot about the mixed tee adjustment bit, doh.

So, the Playing Handicap in this case is 100% Course Handicap adjusted by the mixed tee adjustment. The 90% bit is then thrown in after the PH is calculated.

I'll be interested if the advice is exactly the same for matches simply using the same tee, and how the Playing Allowance table might change in the Appendix C. Currently, Appendix C states:

Handicap allowances are applied to the Course Handicap as the final step in calculating a player’s Playing Handicap (see Rules 6.1 and 6.2).

Whereas in this new guidance, the Playing Handicap is calculated before the allowance % is used.

 

[D-S]

This 4BB change just makes me think that, even more than before, everything needs to be run through either an ISV calculator or a bespoke handicap calculator. These calculators need to be easily accessible either on the touchscreen in the clubhouse or Pro shop or via a QR code on the tee.
This latest change since December means that the 90% table, if you would have had them, is now redundant (and the CR- PR one has only been in existence for a few weeks).

 

[wjemather]

Ahhh, OK, got it. Forgot about the mixed tee adjustment bit, doh.

So, the Playing Handicap in this case is 100% Course Handicap adjusted by the mixed tee adjustment. The 90% bit is then thrown in after the PH is calculated.

I'll be interested if the advice is exactly the same for matches simply using the same tee, and how the Playing Allowance table might change in the Appendix C. Currently, Appendix C states:

Handicap allowances are applied to the Course Handicap as the final step in calculating a player’s Playing Handicap (see Rules 6.1 and 6.2).

Whereas in this new guidance, the Playing Handicap is calculated before the allowance % is used.

I've been told that EG will make the new GB&I version of the rules available for download "soon". Only then can we see if this new guidance is congruent with Appendix C.

Fwiw, the updated (2024) USGA version still states:
"In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match-play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s). The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap."

 

[D-S]

I've been told that EG will make the new GB&I version of the rules available for download "soon". Only then can we see if this new guidance is congruent with Appendix C.

Fwiw, the updated (2024) USGA version still states:
"In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match-play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s). The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap."

Or more accurately “hopefully soon”.

 

[Swango1980]

I've been told that EG will make the new GB&I version of the rules available for download "soon". Only then can we see if this new guidance is congruent with Appendix C.

Fwiw, the updated (2024) USGA version still states:
"In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match-play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s). The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap."

Yeah, will be interesting to see what happens when the advice comes out.

Our Winter League has been extended by a minimum of 5 weeks (so group stages to be complete by end of February), so undoubtedly it'll extend beyond the WHS changes anyway (where CR-Par is introduced). I'll be interested to see if the club makes any statements about what players should do in the latter stages of the competition.

 

[wjemather]

Or more accurately “hopefully soon”.

Indeed. I'm not sure why hope is needed though!

 

[Alan Clifford]

I would like to comment but I have made my feelings known about this supposed WORLD HS, good luck with your version,
when I visit in May not sure if my Aussie Handicap will be recognized.

If it's a WHS handicap index, there's no reason why it shouldn't be.

 

[D-S]

If it's a WHS handicap index, there's no reason why it shouldn't be.

It would be interesting to see if someone could enter a Club Open with an Australian number. I doubt whether the ISV software would recognise it when booking online but is you contacted the club would they? I believe they should but, for example, some clubs don’t allow iGolfers to enter so perhaps they have rules excluding ‘foreigners’.

 

[Alan Clifford]

It would be interesting to see if someone could enter a Club Open with an Australian number. I doubt whether the ISV software would recognise it when booking online but is you contacted the club would they? I believe they should but, for example, some clubs don’t allow iGolfers to enter so perhaps they have rules excluding ‘foreigners’.

That has just reminded me (sorry, I'm old) that HNA in South Africa recommended I keep my South African handicap. The guy I was in communication with thought English handicaps are a bit dodgy as we can choose to not submit scores.
So I'll change my answer. If it's a WHS handicap index, there's every reason why it shouldn't be.

 

[D-S]

That has just reminded me (sorry, I'm old) that HNA in South Africa recommended I keep my South African handicap. The guy I was in communication with thought English handicaps are a bit dodgy as we can choose to not submit scores.
So I'll change my answer. If it's a WHS handicap index, there's every reason why it shouldn't be.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case with a lot of clubs in Spain too. We even had a group when we were playing in the Dom Rep having an argument about which handicap they could use as some of them had higher ones in Spain so they wanted to use those ones.

 

[wjemather]

That has just reminded me (sorry, I'm old) that HNA in South Africa recommended I keep my South African handicap. The guy I was in communication with thought English handicaps are a bit dodgy as we can choose to not submit scores.
So I'll change my answer. If it's a WHS handicap index, there's every reason why it shouldn't be.

Think he has that backwards. We pre-register before the round, at which point we have committed to play to the rules of golf and submit a score; whereas in many other jurisdictions, all acceptable scores should be submitted. This would seem to open the door to cherry-picking scores, and taking actions after the round has started to ensure the score won't be acceptable for handicapping (for example, by taking mulligans, practicing, taking advice, improving lies, foot wedges, etc.). Seems like the latter is more open to abuse.

 

[Swango1980]

Unfortunately that seems to be the case with a lot of clubs in Spain too. We even had a group when we were playing in the Dom Rep having an argument about which handicap they could use as some of them had higher ones in Spain so they wanted to use those ones.

I thought the entire point of moving to WHS was to be able to easily use handicaps all over the world?

Sure, each authority implements certain things differently, but we all have an Index. One Index. And so all you do is use that as a starting point, and whatever authority you are in, they can tell you what your Course or playing handicap is.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I thought the entire point of moving to WHS was to be able to easily use handicaps all over the world?

Sure, each authority implements certain things differently, but we all have an Index. One Index. And so all you do is use that as a starting point, and whatever authority you are in, they can tell you what your Course or playing handicap is.

Sounds great.
When is it happening?

 

[rulefan]

I've been told that EG will make the new GB&I version of the rules available for download "soon". Only then can we see if this new guidance is congruent with Appendix C.

Fwiw, the updated (2024) USGA version still states:
"In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match-play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s). The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap."

Is this it here?

2024-whs-update-resources - England Golf

www.englandgolf.org

 

[Alan Clifford]

Is this it here?

2024-whs-update-resources - England Golf

www.englandgolf.org

Oneof these would be nice, but from England Golf

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2024-revision/2024-Rules-of-Handicapping-USGA.pdf